GLC Questions

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GLC Questions

Unread postby MQT1223 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:17 pm

While out chasing 1225 last weekend I noticed something that raised a few questions for me.

When in Elsie the only signalized crossing in town had old GTW DOT marker signs on the mast. Since when did the GTW ever own these tracks? They also had old TSBY stickers but I don't recall the GTW owning any trackage heading towards Alma. I thought after the AA went belly up that Conrail held it briefly until the state jumped in. Crossings in Owosso on the old AA didn't have any GTW signs. and nothing north of Elsie had GTW DOT signs either.

I also found that the crossing in Shepard has been totally rebuilt from the ground up. New road, sleepers, signals... the whole nine yards. This also means that the Teardrop Bell is now retired too. Besides the crossing near the depot in Mt. Pleasant, do any other Teardrops remain in service on GLC owned rails North of Owosso? I don't know the line as well as others on here so that's why I ask. If the Mt. Pleasant Teardrop is the last one then I will make sure to document it as much as possible in the future.
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby SD80MAC » Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:09 pm

GTW had trackage rights on the AA from Owosso to Ashley. Not sure why they would be considered the owner of the crossing, though.
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby MQT1223 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:10 pm

SD80MAC wrote:GTW had trackage rights on the AA from Owosso to Ashley. Not sure why they would be considered the owner of the crossing, though.


Elsie was the only crossing I found with the Aluminum GTW DOT signs. The rest had TSBY signs which say "TSB" on them.
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby AARR » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:12 am

I think GTW owned the line from around 1976 to 1984 including the track through downtown Owosso. Michigan Interstate and later TSBY leased the engine shops yard but GTW switched the Owosso customers.
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby Steve B » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:56 pm

GTW definitely bought the AA from Durand to Ashley when Conrail started up. I can't remember if GTW bought it from the AA trustee, or if the state had bought it, only to immediately sell it to GTW.

Between Durand and Owosso Jct., the AA became GTW's "AA Owosso Subdivision" (GTW ETT #24, 4/25/76) Soon GTW built connections from the Grand Rapids Sub to former AA trackage in Vernon and Corunna to serve customers there. It built "San" connection to old AA between Corunna & Owosso, and abandoned the remainder of the AA from there to the west end of Durand yard. "AA Owosso Subdivision" was already history by the 4/24/77 ETT.

I've always wondered: did Conrail briefly use the old AA between Durand and San, or did it use the Grand Rapids Sub from the get-go, with San switch constructed immediately?

The Greenville Sub's new terminus became Owosso Jct. To quote GTW ETT #27 of 4/30/78: "All AA trains using GTW tracks between Owosso Jct. and Ashley will be governed by GTW timetable and rules."

GTW thus gained whatever customers there were between Owosso Jct and Ashley. It also ensured continued access to the Ashley-Carson City line, in case CR gave up on Toledo-Elberta and no other operator stepped in.

TSBY bought the Owosso shops from GTW circa 1997, IIRC. Maybe someone knows exactly when GTW sold from San to Ashley, and did it sell to the state or TSBY?
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby MQT1223 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:07 pm

Steve B wrote:GTW definitely bought the AA from Durand to Ashley when Conrail started up. I can't remember if GTW bought it from the AA trustee, or if the state had bought it, only to immediately sell it to GTW.

Between Durand and Owosso Jct., the AA became GTW's "AA Owosso Subdivision" (GTW ETT #24, 4/25/76) Soon GTW built connections from the Grand Rapids Sub to former AA trackage in Vernon and Corunna to serve customers there. It built "San" connection to old AA between Corunna & Owosso, and abandoned the remainder of the AA from there to the west end of Durand yard. "AA Owosso Subdivision" was already history by the 4/24/77 ETT.

I've always wondered: did Conrail briefly use the old AA between Durand and San, or did it use the Grand Rapids Sub from the get-go, with San switch constructed immediately?

The Greenville Sub's new terminus became Owosso Jct. To quote GTW ETT #27 of 4/30/78: "All AA trains using GTW tracks between Owosso Jct. and Ashley will be governed by GTW timetable and rules."

GTW thus gained whatever customers there were between Owosso Jct and Ashley. It also ensured continued access to the Ashley-Carson City line, in case CR gave up on Toledo-Elberta and no other operator stepped in.

TSBY bought the Owosso shops from GTW circa 1997, IIRC. Maybe someone knows exactly when GTW sold from San to Ashley, and did it sell to the state or TSBY?


When your referring to the AA Owosso Sub your referencing the track (now gone) that parallels the old GT heading to Owosso under I-69?
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby SD80MAC » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:14 am

I would guess that GTW sold Owosso to Ashley to the TSBY at the same time they sold everything north and west of Durand to the Central Michigan (1987 IIRC).
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby AARR » Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:21 am

IIRC CMGN continued to operate the original AA Owosso track for quite some time after the sale in 1987. Mr. TSB would know when TSBY re-acquired it because he bought it back :) .

SD80MAC wrote:I would guess that GTW sold Owosso to Ashley to the TSBY at the same time they sold everything north and west of Durand to the Central Michigan (1987 IIRC).
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby Steve B » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:59 pm

MQT1223, yes, that's the track I'm referring to.

What was the last customer on the AA in Owosso and when did it stop using rail service? Michigan Interstate was frustrated that GTW had the rights to the former AA customers.

Is there even a single freight shipper that currently uses the old AA in Shiawassee County? I recall seeing a couple loads at the lumberyard in Vernon 10 or more years ago.
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby AARR » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:20 pm

Steve B wrote:What was the last customer on the AA in Owosso and when did it stop using rail service? Michigan Interstate was frustrated that GTW had the rights to the former AA customers.

Is there even a single freight shipper that currently uses the old AA in Shiawassee County? I recall seeing a couple loads at the lumberyard in Vernon 10 or more years ago.

Woodards AFAIK was the last with a spur. I think they may have transloaded some foundry sand until around 2006. Supposedly someone in Corunna was getting some lumber recently. Vernon hasn't received anything by rail in a while from what I'm told.
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby Henry F. Burger » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:08 pm

I took this from the newsletter
As of December 1979 – “Ann Arbor Trail By Rail and Lake” AARHS
Ann Arbor Railroad Trustee
Ann Arbor to Durand (Pitt Jct.)
Cadillac to Frankfort (boat landing)
Carferry “Atkinson”
Carferry “Viking”

State of Michigan
Toledo to Ann Arbor 0 – 46.23 MP
Ashley to Cadillac 128.35 – 227. 0 MP
Saline Branch
All engines except 301 & 303
All cars except 6,000 series (some cars are leased)

Penn Central
Saginaw Branch, MP 63.8 – 91.8
(between Thomas & Benkert roads south of Swan Creek)
Remainder into Saginaw owned by GTW

Michigan Interstate Ry. Corporation (operators)
Engines 301 & 303
Carferry “City of Milwaukee”
6,000 series cars (cars are leased)

Grand Trunk Western
Durand (Pitt Jct.) to Ashley 95.51 – 128.35 MP (Pitt Jct. to just west depot Ann Arbor RR track had been removed)
All shops & buildings & tracks included
All tracks within Owosso limits
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Re: GLC Questions

Unread postby Steve B » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:56 pm

Thanks for the info, everybody. Kind of confusing how things were split up towards the end.
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