PM 101 & C&O 98

Any historical questions can be posted here. Answers would certainly help as well :)

PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby C&O6084 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:11 am

... Were E7s that ran in Michigan. My roster books list both as wrecked & traded in 1963/1064 (varies) at Michigan City. makes sence; C&O had a huge surplus of passenger locos by then.

Any specifics out there about the wreck, and even better, any pics of the wreck or wrecked locos? Googling down 14 pages reveals nothing about the wreck, and the search gets confused with "The Wreck of C&O 97", which is a song about a steam train that derailed, a.k.a. "Scalded to Death by the Steam."
C&O6084
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:42 pm

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby BL2-1843 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:29 pm

Am not sure what the question posed was. E7A locomotives for the PM/C&O were numbered 95-98 and 101-108. Phase one E7A units 101-102 were delivered to the PM in June 1946 and were fully lettered for PM. These were the only two to have the on the side number boards. Phase two units 103-108 were delivered between April and August of 1947. Phase two 95-98 were delivered in July 1948 and came with Chesapeake and Ohio lettering, with Pere Marquette sub lettering up at the top.

It was 97 (for sure) and 101 the two locomotives that were wrecked and retired. I have the dates and information here somewhere and will keep looking. All of the E7A units worked in Michigan for the better part of their existence. With the use of the C&O E8A locomotives 4000-4030, becoming common in Michigan, combined with the upcoming merger with B&O in 1963, the E7A units began to be used elsewhere.

The original renumbering plan for the E7A units was to have the Phase One locomotives renumbered to 4500-4501, Phase two units 103-108 to become (and did) 4510-4515, and 95-98 to become 4520-4523. With the demise of locmotives 97 & 101, the 4500-4501 numbers were abandoned. 102 eventually became 4522. After the transfer of some of the locomotives to the B&O. 102/4522 was renumbered 1425, while the 105,4512 became 1414.
Last edited by BL2-1843 on Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BL2-1843
Howell Yardmaster
 
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:50 pm

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby C&O6084 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:47 pm

Lead sentence, second paragraph:
Any specifics out there about the wreck, and even better, any pics of the wreck or wrecked locos?


Just the wreck. I'm sure others here can use the roster information, so it's certainly not wasted-- thanks. I've always been interested in the whys and hows of the C&O treating the PM lines like a separate railroad for so long after the merger.

I remember the BL2s switching in Grandville when I was a kid and the ex-PM gondolas filled with car frames. Last PM cars I saw were two 20000-series covered hoppers in wreck storage near Porter lake-- one with paint in very good shape, and one pure grey from spilled cement. The one in good shape is now at the B&O museum in Baltimore.

Growing up, there were quite a few homes with salvaged ex-PM & C&O auto box winches (modified Chinese windlasses) in their garages. Grandville was a popular choice for homes among ex-PM & C&O employees.
C&O6084
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:42 pm

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby BL2-1843 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:25 pm

Posed the question to Carl Shaver, long time C&O historian. He could only come up with a 1963 date. He in turn posed the question on the Nostalgia and History link on Trainorders.dot com and got this quick reply along with a link to a photo, which apparently you have to order.

C&O TRAIN #9 WITH E-7'S #101, 98 AFTER GRADE CROSSING ACCIDENT WITH TRUCK ON U.S. RTE 20, MICHIGAN CITY, IN FEB 1963

http://cohs.org/cgi-bin/cohs_search.pl? ... &sl=50

There may be further responses or photos to this question. Hope this will turn out to be beneficial.
User avatar
BL2-1843
Howell Yardmaster
 
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:50 pm

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby BL2-1843 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 7:41 am

Thanks for the reference! I guess C&OHS didn't have this information available or accessible back when I was writing the book. The book definitely says 97, though, not 98, was the unit that was wrecked with the 101. Guess I'll have to obtain the picture and see if it shows.

Six months later (8/63) there was a similar accident at the same grade crossing that cost the C&O three GP7s (5718, 5771, 5791) and a bunch of brand-new Airslide covered hoppers. Since then, I-94 was completed through Indiana, so the road's no longer as busy. But the crossing has not been improved...still lights and gates and probably crazy truckers as well.

Carl Shaver Lombard, IL
User avatar
BL2-1843
Howell Yardmaster
 
Posts: 3558
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:50 pm

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby fmilhaupt » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:17 am

I wonder whether (former Trainmaster) Art Gillette's clippings and photo collection would have anything on this. I saw it in the late 1970s when my father visited his office while we were shooting photos for a United Way fundraising drive at Wyoming Yard. There were lots of wreck photos and other clippings, and I distinctly remember a few photos of wrecks near Michigan City.

Those binders are in the PMHS's collection. It might take me a while, but I'll see what there might be. This is precisely the kind of thing that I like to run in PM TRACKS.

I'm always willing to run articles with recollections from people who "were there" on the former PM/C&O/Chessie/CSX over the years...
-Fritz Milhaupt
fmilhaupt
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 267
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:23 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby C&O6084 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:09 pm

Thanks for the help, everyone. carl and I go way back; 70s. I was showing at ArtPrize in 2000 when he walked up to me and started talking to me, and I didn't recognize him! Saw him previously back in 86 or 86 at cajon Pass in SOuthern California; we were both photographing a very late Desert Wind.

But how yo you guys expect me to order only ONE photo?
C&O6084
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:42 pm

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby Doktor No » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:37 am

http://specialcollection.dotlibrary.dot.gov/Contents
There USED to be something in here about a train truck collison on the US20 crossing just south (RR West) of the passing siding in Michigan City. I used to work with an engineer that was on the train that whacked the tanker truck but that was a freight. He dove for the floor and lived. A few brand new Pullman Standard flour hoppers were wrecked that had just been picked up from the MC plant. I believe this one killed a couple of wreck/carmen employees who were cutting away a fuel tank from a GP7 that was overturned.
Darned if I can find it though. It WAS here in the DOT site but I see a lot of the investigations are no longer there.
Anyway...a good rainy afternoons worth of fascinating reading here should you wish to indulge.
Enjoy Every Sandwich.
User avatar
Doktor No
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 736
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:49 pm

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby Firemedic Mike » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:29 pm

From what I can tell, the accident that killed the wreck crew also killed the head end crew and the tanker truck driver. That one also occurred on US 20. http://www3.gendisasters.com/indiana/11 ... e-nov-1956
I save lives. What do you do?
Firemedic Mike
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: St. Joseph, MI

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby Saturnalia » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:58 pm

I took a look at the FRA database, and since 1975 there have been 11 incidents at US 20 on the GRS. Combined, there have been 4 fatalities and 6 injuries, all to highway users. Obviously data doesn't go back to this wreck. 11 reports puts it up as one of the most dangerous crossings in the region.
Thornapple River Rail Series - YouTube
Dah Yooper Snowfall Total: 317"
User avatar
Saturnalia
Authority on Cat
 
Posts: 13655
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:54 pm
Location: Michigan's Copper Country

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby C&O6084 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:20 pm

Pictured of the Geeps appeared in patrick reed's "Train Wrecks" book.
C&O6084
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:42 pm

Re: PM 101 & C&O 98

Unread postby J T » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:04 am

C&O6084 wrote:Thanks for the help, everyone. carl and I go way back; 70s. I was showing at ArtPrize in 2000 when he walked up to me and started talking to me...

I'm guessing you meant to type 2009, as it didn't start until that year. What were you showing there?
User avatar
J T
Hates Supper
 
Posts: 10474
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Grand Rapids


Return to Historical Q & A

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

x