Diesel Preservation What's Next?

[AARR]

The Amtrak units will likely end up on commuter roads or even some short lines (the P32's wouldn't be too bad for a short line), and freight railroads like to rebuild units now lots and lots of rebuilds. And don't forget short lines, many shortlne units are in their 3rd or 4th owners.

From what I have read (and perhaps one of the railroaders here can confirm) a passenger unit needs quite a bit of work to become freight worthy. A few Amtrak F40's were converted to freight service and it was decided it was cheaper to acquire used GP's than convert the F40's.

[Ypsi]

The Amtrak units will likely end up on commuter roads or even some short lines (the P32's wouldn't be too bad for a short line), and freight railroads like to rebuild units now lots and lots of rebuilds. And don't forget short lines, many shortlne units are in their 3rd or 4th owners.

From what I have read (and perhaps one of the railroaders here can confirm) a passenger unit needs quite a bit of work to become freight worthy. A few Amtrak F40's were converted to freight service and it was decided it was cheaper to acquire used GP's than convert the F40's.

Wouldn't surprise me.. There are probably a small handful or short lines that could take them as is.. and they likely wouldn't have the cash flow to purchase them (although I'm not sure how much or little a P32 would cost on the secondary market as there has never been one of the 20 on the market). I was thinking roads that handle under a dozen to 20 cars per train at slow speeds.. but even then it may take work. It would make more sense to get them on a commuter railroad like the Music city star, MBTA, or trirail (all roads that have purchased used power and would probably do it again)

[Bulby]

The Amtrak units will likely end up on commuter roads or even some short lines (the P32's wouldn't be too bad for a short line), and freight railroads like to rebuild units now lots and lots of rebuilds. And don't forget short lines, many shortlne units are in their 3rd or 4th owners.

From what I have read (and perhaps one of the railroaders here can confirm) a passenger unit needs quite a bit of work to become freight worthy. A few Amtrak F40's were converted to freight service and it was decided it was cheaper to acquire used GP's than convert the F40's.

The biggest issue is the gearing in the traction motors, passenger gearing means more units to start the same train, and you are also more likely to burn up the motors. So factor in the cost of new combos or rebuilding the ones you have with new gear ratios. Rebuilding the combos may or may not be cost effective, depending on condition of the motor, and wear in the wheels, axle, and condition of the bearings.

In the case of the F40s, the few that got rebuilt for freight use had the noses rebuilt to add a front walkway, nose door, and switching steps. If the locomotive's HEP is driven off the prime mover, you need to factor in disconnecting that, and resetting the governor to "standard" settings. I would also lean towards removing the third MR pipe next to the brake pipe or capping it off.

The P32-8WH's would be easier to convert than F40s, the P32AC-DM/P40/P42s would be much more difficult than the F40s.

For cost of a P32-8WH on the secondary market, how much are equivalents of a B32-8 going for right now? I know NS donated one to a museum already, so they aren't worth a whole lot.

[jrgerber]

Curious as to how well four axle GEs do in the secondary market for shortlines ie B23-7 units and the like. Doesn't seem to be a market for used Alcos anymore most are getting scrapped. There are a few Alco models that should be marked for preservation starting with RS-2 469 here in Michigan. Its really too bad we didn't preserve for example the C-628s or more RSD-15s.

[MQT1223]

Curious as to how well four axle GEs do in the secondary market for shortlines ie B23-7 units and the like. Doesn't seem to be a market for used Alcos anymore most are getting scrapped. There are a few Alco models that should be marked for preservation starting with RS-2 469 here in Michigan. Its really too bad we didn't preserve for example the C-628s or more RSD-15s.

I personally think that 469 should go to SRI so they have a diesel to do excursions when 1225 is down. After all Alco diesels are honorary steam locomotives.

[SD80MAC]

GEs are good road engines but terrible switch/local engines. That's why you see only a handful of shortlines operating Dash 7s whilst there are thousands of Geeps and SDs still earning their keep.

[MQT1223]

GEs are good road engines but terrible switch/local engines. That's why you see only a handful of shortlines operating Dash 7s whilst there are thousands of Geeps and SDs still earning their keep.

The Providence and Worchester just got rid of their last B unit GE's, but the only railroad that comes to mind using Dash 7 diesels in regular service is the Pickens Railway with a trio of ex. CSX U18's (Baby Boats) in a modified CSX MOW Orange paint scheme. I think most Dash 7 units were parted out and scrapped due to reliability issues with a few fortunate enough to make it to museums. The Southern Appalachia Railway Museum owns a trio of ex. CSX U25's in their original MOW orange, but two are operational with the third being used for parts. IRM has a Milwaukee Road U25 under restoration and a group out west just got a hold of a Milwaukee Road U Boat as well. I know there are more out there, but not many U boats (Or Dash 7 diesels of any kind) have escaped the cutting torch as far as I know. The two Dash 8 diesels were delivered to museums in mechanically poor condition. The NS unit (which was built for NS, not a predecessor road) has an engine issue, and will probably not run at the museum its at due to the lack of track to run it on. The UP 1848 is a former Cotton Belt unit that was delivered to IRM prior to diesel days operable, but it could only run for short periods of time due to some electrical issues. Bulby could fill in the details if he chimes in on the matter.

[Schteinkuh]

Sure they weren't designed for heavy hauls, but if Amtrak was desperate enough to get rid of them I could see it happening. Western Maryland used BL2's in drag freight service when they were built for branchline service and light trains, even with their history of cracking frames. GG1's were used both ways as well, although you can argue because they were electric it would be different. NS leased F40's? That's news to me. The thoroughbred paint scheme would look awesome on an F40, better then YN3.

Believe it or not, NS leased F40PHs from Amtrak in the 90s due to severe power shortages. I guess somehow that constitutes repainting them in your logic?? Those P32s are beginning to reach the end of the road in terms of reliability and road-worthiness, but I don't see why Amtrak would be "desperate" to get rid of such locomotives. For example, they sure aren't "desperate" to get rid of the P40s that have been sitting in Beech Grove for years and years, or the 40-60 year old equipment they still run regularly! Amtrak doesn't get the kind of funding where they can just do a roster cleanout like UP or NS would do. They're the kind of railroad that'll patch and rebuild their stuff and run it until it dies for good. Recently, they received their order of new baggage cars and are now starting to replace their heritage equipment, and are currently phasing out old electric engines on the NEC. It IS getting better for them equipment-wise....slowly. Now, if you're a shortline owner looking for more power, are you going to look at buying the beat down engines fresh from Amtrak, or some EMD power from NRE that's been proven to be efficient in maintenance and operations? Or take it from a leaser standpoint, say if some railroad was going to retire some SD40-2s. Would you take those, or the Amtrak GE's yet to be rebuilt? The SD40-2s may be a little worn down, but they won't cost nearly as much to rebuild or repower (if need be) as those Amtrak engines will.

[Saturnalia]

There are EMD products from as far back as 1970 (SW1000s) on the CSX Locomotive roster. Oldest GE are C40-8Ws from 1989.

Only 19 years difference...

[SD80MAC]

There are EMD products from as far back as 1970 (SW1000s) on the CSX Locomotive roster. Oldest GE are C40-8Ws from 1989.

Only 19 years difference...

1963 if you count the Road Slugs.

[Saturnalia]

There are EMD products from as far back as 1970 (SW1000s) on the CSX Locomotive roster. Oldest GE are C40-8Ws from 1989.

Only 19 years difference...

1963 if you count the Road Slugs.

Yeah, but I don't like counting those because they're pretty much just shells - extensively rebuilt and not operating in their as-delivered format. Same goes for the yard slugs...some of ALCo origin IIRC! But nonetheless counted based on their reconfiguration. At least that is my $0.02 for roster age - and what I use in my spreadsheet.

[EWRice]

Keep in mind that no other locomotive manufacturer has the parts support (both OEM and aftermarket) and parts interchange/upgrade capabilities that EMD does. The EMD prime movers are also used in many marine and industrial applications. The basic EMD platform and consistency across many years makes them ideal for low buget short line power. The fact that you can have a first run SW1200 (or earlier models that have been upgraded to C block prime mover) all the way to the newest GP or SD using a 645 engine and you only need to stock 1 type of power assembly (a left an a right) is a huge cost savings. Most of the major electrical components are interchangeable. EMD is using their 710 prime mover in natural gas tests. That engine design was introduced in the 1980s, and it is a two stroke. You can even transplant a fully computerized 710 in the earliest E, F, NW, or GP without much modification.

[C&O6084]

ATK55, I'll bet serious money that Amtrak >>IS<< desperate to get rid of their 65+ year old stuff.

Elsewhere...
Some of CSX's road slugs, from the lowest-numbered 3000-series GP30's, have Blomberg trucks from BL-2s, built in 1947.

And the oldest diesel on a Class I is an Amtrak SW-1..

[Schteinkuh]

Keep in mind that no other locomotive manufacturer has the parts support (both OEM and aftermarket) and parts interchange/upgrade capabilities that EMD does.

+1

ATK55, I'll bet serious money that Amtrak >>IS<< desperate to get rid of their 65+ year old stuff.

Elsewhere...
Some of CSX's road slugs, from the lowest-numbered 3000-series GP30's, have Blomberg trucks from BL-2s, built in 1947.

And the oldest diesel on a Class I is an Amtrak SW-1.

They are making moves to take them out of service, but when Amtrak retires their equipment, they usually keep them in storage for a little while while as parts sources.

[MQT1223]

ATK55, I'll bet serious money that Amtrak >>IS<< desperate to get rid of their 65+ year old stuff.

Elsewhere...
Some of CSX's road slugs, from the lowest-numbered 3000-series GP30's, have Blomberg trucks from BL-2s, built in 1947.

And the oldest diesel on a Class I is an Amtrak SW-1.

I am a huge fan of that SW-1. Keep it goin' Amtrak! It looks great in the current paint. Just out of curiosity, what's the oldest operational diesel in the US? I've found two switchers built in 1939, Lehigh Valley #112 and a switcher still in BN paint on the ND&W, both built in 1939. I know of only a few other's older then that on display but not operational.

[C&O6084]

For example, they sure aren't "desperate" to get rid of the P40s that have been sitting in Beech Grove for years and years, or the 40-60 year old equipment they still run regularly!

FABULOUS impression of MQT!

[Matt Short Line H]

[quote= And the oldest diesel on a Class I is an Amtrak SW-1..[/quote]

Actually the oldest operating diesel on a Class I is Metra's SW1's. Those baby's are from the Rock Island Days!

[SD80MAC]

Neither Amtrak or Metra are Class 1s.

[MQT1223]

Neither Amtrak or Metra are Class 1s.

I was waiting to see who would say it first. Would you technically call them "Passenger Carriers"?

[Ypsi]

Neither Amtrak or Metra are Class 1s.

I agree with that, however I have seen at least Amtrak considered a "class 1" railroad by some people. I guess the "class one of passenger rail" would make sense