Chessie/CSX Mainline Steam (Past)

[MQT1223]

THIS IS NOT ABOUT WHY CSX WON'T ALLOW EXCURSIONS NOW OR ASKING WHY BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW, but I was curious as to how many steam excursions did come through the Grand Rapids/Grandville/Wyoming area back when steam was not banned from CSX. Not sure if this should be in the history thread either. Pictures would be neat too. I am aware of the 1225 ferry run from Ann Pere to Grand Rapids and return as prep for the '91 NRHS convention, NKP 765 dressed as C&O 2765 in 1993/1994 (not sure which year), 614 in the early 80's and 2101 in the late 70's. I have seen only a handful of pictures here and there, and was curious if more was out there. I dream of the day a big berk or 4-8-4 (or anything for that matter) will one day return to West Michigan via CSX. I do believe some fresh minds in the higher ups can definitely change things, even if we have to wait longer then most. I know it will come, but I don't know how long I will have to wait to see it.

[J T]

I dream of the day a big berk or 4-8-4 (or anything for that matter) will one day return to West Michigan via CSX. I do believe some fresh minds in the higher ups can definitely change things, even if we have to wait longer (than) most. I know it will come, but I don't know how long I will have to wait to see it.

NO, IT WON'T COME, SO QUIT WAITING FOR IT TO HAPPEN!

[Jochs]

2765 ran to Holland, then back east in 1993.

[Saturnalia]

Never know...Class I power structures, including at CSX, are nearing a generational change right now...the CEOs are reaching retirement age.

As for when it happens next time, I've got my spots picked out! #thornappleriverbridge

[MQT1223]

Never know...Class I power structures, including at CSX, are nearing a generational change right now...the CEOs are reaching retirement age.

As for when it happens next time, I've got my spots picked out! #thornappleriverbridge

That's what I'm banking on. NS went through this phase and thanks to Wick Moorman is out of it. Canadian Pacific is going through the Anti-Steam phase right now. When Hunter Harrison leaves (assuming CP hasn't merged, which it probably won't, and yes I think Hunter Harrison will retire again soon), I bet 2816 comes back albeit not right away. They still allow Milwaukee Road 261 on their rails fortunately. I got my spots picked as well my friend, along with pacing on Chicago Drive! It will be nice to see steam so close to home, no long drives to worry about.

[GP30M4216]

I'd also like to see some photos if anyone has a few to share!

Here's the 1977-1978 schedule of the Chessie Steam Special, which used former Reading T1 #2101 for power. It came to Michigan and ran several trips each season around the mitten:

http://www.themetrains.com/chessie-stea ... meline.htm

The Chessie Safety Express came to Michigan in 1981, using much of the same equipment, but a new locomotive on the headend - freshly rebuilt C&O #614:

http://www.themetrains.com/chessie-safe ... meline.htm

[CSX_CO]

Just read the financial section to see what way CSX is going towards in its "generational change." So, voluntary separations to reduce management levels, now layoffs for additional cost savings, yeah that harkens a return of steam to the rails...

Never mind the ever increasing liability insurance.

Practice Safe CSX

[MQT1223]

Just read the financial section to see what way CSX is going towards in its "generational change." So, voluntary separations to reduce management levels, now layoffs for additional cost savings, yeah that harkens a return of steam to the rails...

Never mind the ever increasing liability insurance.

Practice Safe CSX

I guess I knew you were going to chime in at some point... I would point you in the direction of NS and say "Look at what they are doing" but that would only stir your pot more. If steam ever does return to CSX it obviously would not be an in house program like Union Pacific's (No this is not an invite about the UP steam situation) but it would most likely be modeled after NS or BNSF. NS allows more steam so that most likely means more $$$ when it comes to insurance. If you are like BNSF you allow steam when possible and decline it when traffic dictates then I would be ok with that as well. Like I said I'm probably stirring your pot a little bit more but I am optimistic about seeing steam return one day.

[CSX_CO]

NS Is being run by a buff, that's the only reason they have what they have.

CSX is being run by an operations guy, with a numbers guy being groomed to take over. Don't hold your breath on steam on CSX.

[MQT1223]

NS Is being run by a buff, that's the only reason they have what they have.

CSX is being run by an operations guy, with a numbers guy being groomed to take over. Don't hold your breath on steam on CSX.

NS's isn't doing bad. Wick Moorman might like steam but I don't think that a huge company would put someone in charge that doesn't know what they are doing, likewise for CSX. There numbers are up as well. I haven't seen or read any of the articles, but they are doing well just like CSX. Now if your a CP fan, which I hear you are, then you know not who to put in charge of a railroad.

[CSX_CO]

NS Is being run by a buff, that's the only reason they have what they have.

CSX is being run by an operations guy, with a numbers guy being groomed to take over. Don't hold your breath on steam on CSX.

NS's isn't doing bad. Wick Moorman might like steam but I don't think that a huge company would put someone in charge that doesn't know what they are doing, likewise for CSX. There numbers are up as well. I haven't seen or read any of the articles, but they are doing well just like CSX. Now if your a CP fan, which I hear you are, then you know not who to put in charge of a railroad.

Depends on who you as to the health of NS. financially they're doing well. But more to it than just numbers. If they were doing so well, they wouldn't have shelved the steam this summer. But, outside the scope of this subject.

CSX ran the ferry move of the CP Steamer in 2004 across the northern part of the system. Probably the last time steam was on CSX I think?

[ns8401]

Never know...Class I power structures, including at CSX, are nearing a generational change right now...the CEOs are reaching retirement age.

As for when it happens next time, I've got my spots picked out! #thornappleriverbridge

Ummmm they will probably just hire another CEO north of 55... most CEO's are at retirement age in most companies much of the time. There are not the generational changes at the top the way they happen lower down the totem pole. You won't get a 40 year old replacing a 65 year old most likely.

What's more, CEO's don't usually stick around long enough for a generational shift to be nearing. They usually last 10 years at the most... no results then you no be CEO anymore.

[MQT1223]

NS Is being run by a buff, that's the only reason they have what they have.

CSX is being run by an operations guy, with a numbers guy being groomed to take over. Don't hold your breath on steam on CSX.

NS's isn't doing bad. Wick Moorman might like steam but I don't think that a huge company would put someone in charge that doesn't know what they are doing, likewise for CSX. There numbers are up as well. I haven't seen or read any of the articles, but they are doing well just like CSX. Now if your a CP fan, which I hear you are, then you know not who to put in charge of a railroad.

Depends on who you as to the health of NS. financially they're doing well. But more to it than just numbers. If they were doing so well, they wouldn't have shelved the steam this summer. But, outside the scope of this subject.

CSX ran the ferry move of the CP Steamer in 2004 across the northern part of the system. Probably the last time steam was on CSX I think?

NS shelved the program for most of last year due to traffic increases and not enough crews. Now this is news to me about CP 2816. I was not aware 2816 was on CSX rails at some point. I wonder what that was all about. The last move of any steam that I can find prior to that was C&O 2716 returning from Fort Wayne dead in tow. 1225 was suppose to come to GR in 2004 however someone at SRI bragged too much about it and CSX scrapped the idea. But now that I think of it, Southern 630 was wyed on CSX trackage at one point either last year or 2013. Whether that consisted of using NS trackage rights or an agreement was struck I don't know. It was in Kentucky or Ohio. If you count that that was the last time steam has been on CSX on its own wheels. The 1309 move doesn't count since it was on a flatcar.

CSX_CO maybe you could shed some light on this, but any clue as to why CSX banned steam? I've seen anywhere from insurance costs, groups taking advantage of CSX, a derailment and someone getting injured because they got too close. Everyone minus UP and BN kinda seemed to go anti steam around the same time, and CP was just around the corner of reacquiring 2816.

After this lets TRY (as hard as it will be), to get back to the original question on this thread.

[srjason]

In theory, couldn't NS use trackage rights over CSX and run steam? (Ie. Getting into Cincy from the dayton district). Without updating trackage rights agreements I'm pretty sure they can't tell NS they can't run steam. But, I may be completely wrong in my understanding of how trackage rights work, so take my theory with a grain of salt.

[SousaKerry]

In theory, couldn't NS use trackage rights over CSX and run steam? (Ie. Getting into Cincy from the dayton district). Without updating trackage rights agreements I'm pretty sure they can't tell NS they can't run steam. But, I may be completely wrong in my understanding of how trackage rights work, so take my theory with a grain of salt.

I am sure that most of these agreements have a clause that says "acceptable equipment" And considering most steam runs under waivers because of age and safety equipment standards this excludes the practice as well. Not only that but most time tables have maximum axle loadings for the line as well so many of your large steam engines violate those engineering rules as well.

But I am sure I am wrong about all this and someone will make sure to point it out.

[TrainWatcher]

NS shelved steam for this summer? That's going to be news to a lot of these groups, FWRHS, TVRM and VMT/611.

[MQT1223]

NS shelved steam for this summer? That's going to be news to a lot of these groups, FWRHS, TVRM and VMT/611.

Do you have confirmation on this?

[CSX_CO]

NS shelved steam for this summer? That's going to be news to a lot of these groups, FWRHS, TVRM and VMT/611.

Do you have confirmation on this?

Do you read and comprehend what's posted before posting?

[MQT1223]

NS shelved steam for this summer? That's going to be news to a lot of these groups, FWRHS, TVRM and VMT/611.

Do you have confirmation on this?

Do you read and comprehend what's posted before posting?

Yes but who knows what info people are witholding. Ik things about SRI that I am sure no body else on this board knows but people can make assumptions. I was just questioning the validity. I can read...

[CSX_CO]

So what is it you want confirmation of then?