I've read in a few books that Automatic Train Stop was installed on the PM between Grand Rapids and Detroit. Other than that, there seems to be little other information available on the subject. What year was it installed? I'm guessing sometime in the 1940's. How long into the C&O era did it last? What classes of C&O engines were equipped with ATS shoes? Were there any other spots on the C&O that had ATS?
I visited PM #1223 last Friday and it still has it's ATS shoe, hence my interest in the subject.
What's this... by conrail6809, on Flickr
Grand Haven Steam Display by conrail6809, on Flickr
This is the only picture I've been able to find of an ATS installation, east of Plymouth, from the book Pere Marquette Power
ATS on the Pere Marquette
- SD80MAC
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ATS on the Pere Marquette
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
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Re: ATS on the Pere Marquette
BL2's: 80-83 (83 re# to 1839 to put all steam generator BL2's together)
E7: C&O 95-98, PM 101-108 (duh!)
U25B: 2500-2539 (removed by 1970)
GP30: 3000-3047 (removed after 1971)
GP35: 3520-3539 & 3569 (deactivated after 1971)
E8: 4000-4030 (duh!)
NW2: 5209-5215 (removed between 1965 & 1971)
RS3: 5600 & 5601
GP7: 5700-5719, 5739-5797, 5800-5830, 5840-5855, 5860, 5862-5900 (removed between 1965 & 1971)
GP9: 5901-6008 (all but 11 units; removed from most units by 1971)
GP9: 6009-6208 ("probably" in all or most units, removed 1965-1970)
GP9: 62009-6263 (removed between 1965 & 1971)
FP7A: 8000-8015 (deactivated on remaining locomotives by 1971)
ATS was on C&O switchers that had to run on mainlines in order to reach their branch line, but not PM switchers (arguably, low-number BL2s were ordered by PM but delivered to C&O)
GP30, GP35's and U25B were the only second-generation locos with ATS.
There were far more ATS-equipped locos without steam heat than with.
Probably the ONLY remaining, working ones:
F40PH's 9998 & 9999 "should STILL have it", as all F40's had a selector switch controlling an electrical box that allowed the engineer to select from ATS, ATSF Inductive, and C&NW safetrain. No telling what systems are left-- seems senseless to train & equip someone to maintain safety systems for lines that a mere two CSX locos won't ever run on.
E7: C&O 95-98, PM 101-108 (duh!)
U25B: 2500-2539 (removed by 1970)
GP30: 3000-3047 (removed after 1971)
GP35: 3520-3539 & 3569 (deactivated after 1971)
E8: 4000-4030 (duh!)
NW2: 5209-5215 (removed between 1965 & 1971)
RS3: 5600 & 5601
GP7: 5700-5719, 5739-5797, 5800-5830, 5840-5855, 5860, 5862-5900 (removed between 1965 & 1971)
GP9: 5901-6008 (all but 11 units; removed from most units by 1971)
GP9: 6009-6208 ("probably" in all or most units, removed 1965-1970)
GP9: 62009-6263 (removed between 1965 & 1971)
FP7A: 8000-8015 (deactivated on remaining locomotives by 1971)
ATS was on C&O switchers that had to run on mainlines in order to reach their branch line, but not PM switchers (arguably, low-number BL2s were ordered by PM but delivered to C&O)
GP30, GP35's and U25B were the only second-generation locos with ATS.
There were far more ATS-equipped locos without steam heat than with.
Probably the ONLY remaining, working ones:
F40PH's 9998 & 9999 "should STILL have it", as all F40's had a selector switch controlling an electrical box that allowed the engineer to select from ATS, ATSF Inductive, and C&NW safetrain. No telling what systems are left-- seems senseless to train & equip someone to maintain safety systems for lines that a mere two CSX locos won't ever run on.
- SD80MAC
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Re: ATS on the Pere Marquette
Thanks, that answers a couple of my questions, but not all of them. Anyone?
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
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http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
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Re: ATS on the Pere Marquette
What was the idea behind ATS and why was it phased out?
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- SD80MAC
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Re: ATS on the Pere Marquette
Someone else can explain it a lot better than I can, but think of it as PTC that actually worked. Basically, locomotives traveling on lines equipped with automatic train stop have shoes mounted on them near the ground. These shoes pass over the inductors located next to the tracks (at each signal? I'm not sure). The inductor would communicate with the ATS equipment on board the locomotive in regards to what the next signal indication was. As I understand it, the system would automatically stop the train if the train was approaching a stop signal too fast or wasn't going to stop. Again, someone else can explain it better. As far as I know the only place that it's still used is somewhere on the old Santa Fe (where Amtrak's Southwest Chief can go 90 mph). ATS came about sometime in the early part of the 20th century and eventually a law was passed stating that unless trains were equipped with cab signals (ATS at the time), 79 mph was as fast as they could go. This holds true today.ns8401 wrote:What was the idea behind ATS and why was it phased out?
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
Re: ATS on the Pere Marquette
Most of what I have read on the internet indicates that the 90mph areas on the chief have ha the speeds downgraded because of poor track conditions (on the endangered portion of the SW chief route or whatever). Rumblings on old TO post said 79mph, I would guess it may be lower by now. I have seen a couple YouTube videos on it, seeing the full train rocket at 90 is impressive, and now I want to go find out what Amtrak units had the ATS boot/ receivers.. Looks like more "research"
Read some of this page along with some other stuff: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?4,1330280
EDIT: low and behold i found more, but also feel like i already knew this: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?4,2266483
Read some of this page along with some other stuff: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?4,1330280
EDIT: low and behold i found more, but also feel like i already knew this: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/r ... ?4,2266483
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Re: ATS on the Pere Marquette
There is a good explanation of how the ATS type systems work in the old Pennsylvania Railroad PR film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kThWihLOuR8
Discussion of cab signals and ATS start around 3:30 into the film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kThWihLOuR8
Discussion of cab signals and ATS start around 3:30 into the film.
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Re: ATS on the Pere Marquette
I believe most of the P42s have the shoe. Not sure about F40s or Dash 8s but I'm sure at least some of each had them.
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
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Re: ATS on the Pere Marquette
Only about 1 in 4 has the shoe... same went for F40's. The only route that comes to mind needing ATS is the south west chief.SD80MAC wrote:I believe most of the P42s have the shoe. Not sure about F40s or Dash 8s but I'm sure at least some of each had them.