Telegraph insulators

[Eric Berger]

I've had this question that's been nibbling at my mind for a while now...

What did the colors of the insulators on telegraph poles along the ROW signify? The two most common I've seen were clear and green. On the poles that still exist, I've noted that they seemed to be in some kind of organized placement.

Also, about when did the railroads phase out telegraph communications?

Thanks for any information!

--Eric

[Saturnalia]

The same principles apply to codeline, as far as organizing by colors. I always inference it helped keep track of while wire was which wire.

[CSX_CO]

The same principles apply to codeline, as far as organizing by colors. I always inference it helped keep track of while wire was which wire.

I don't know if they 'color coded' their insulators, as that sounds too expensive. Usually it was engineering specifications on the cross arms as to what wire was for what function. Signal maintainers and communications maintainers (if there were such a beast back then) would know based upon the position on the cross arm, what function that wire had.

However, as with everything, railroads had different standards for their 'standard' insulator.

Practice Safe CSX

[Saturnalia]

The same principles apply to codeline, as far as organizing by colors. I always inference it helped keep track of while wire was which wire.

I don't know if they 'color coded' their insulators, as that sounds too expensive. Usually it was engineering specifications on the cross arms as to what wire was for what function. Signal maintainers and communications maintainers (if there were such a beast back then) would know based upon the position on the cross arm, what function that wire had.

However, as with everything, railroads had different standards for their 'standard' insulator.

Practice Safe CSX

I'm not talking about a different color for each wire, I mean like xbar 1 would be green, #2 clear, #3 green, etc.

I'd love to have an insulator or two from when they take the codeline down...

[CSX_CO]

I'm not talking about a different color for each wire, I mean like xbar 1 would be green, #2 clear, #3 green, etc.

Yeah, that's why I said:

I don't know if they 'color coded' their insulators, as that sounds too expensive.

Again, since some people have a reading comprehension problem, I don't think they color coded their insulators. That would be too expensive.
A quick google search confirms this:

http://www.insulators.info/general/faq.htm

"In general, insulators were not made in specific colors for any reason. The natural materials that were used to make glass, including sand and glass cullet, tended to make light aqua to aqua colored insulators. Some batches were more green, others more blue. In addition, some trace chemicals would alter the color of the insulators. Also, since all glass is produced using some glass cullet, the composition of the cullet would also have an impact on the color of the resultant insulator."

Not that they didn't make the different colors, but they were decidedly more expensive.

Plus, alot of railroad code line wire was uninsulated in the first place. That, or they had cloth insulation on them. As long as you're not using multi-conductive wire, and keeping them separate from each other, no need to have insulation in the first place. Copper was common, but I've seen where the PRR used a lot of 'steel' wire for code line. I've restored signals with all sorts of wiring and insulation on them. Some cloth insulation, some funky rubber type of insulation, some had some weird 'tar' type insulation on them.

So, getting back on track, what you did want was a 'standard' (be it system or division wide) of what each position on the cross arm was for. This was especially important in areas where the cross arms carried the 'commercial' power for the signal installations, which was quite common especially in the rural areas. You would want to know for a fact that the maintainers weren't just haphazardly assigning slots on the cross arms. Especially if someone else came along to fix a problem started messing with a slot that was supposed to be used to carry the relay code signals, was carring the 220v or 440v power that ran the system. The pole line along the C&O in Ohio still has "440V" tags on the two outermost posts on the crossarms. Every once in a great while those signal systems are still carrying the 'hot' power and some unsuspecting wire thief gets a shocking surprise...

That's not to say there wasn't variation in color, type, etc (because of variations in the mineral content of the batch of glass), but usually each railroad settled on a 'standard' insulator type, and stuck with it. Of course, like with a lot of things, by the end insulators were 'interchangeable' as supply diminished.

Corning Glass did a lot of experiments in the early 1900's into the 'science' of glass making. Especially railroad applications when it came to the chemical composition for consistent signal lenses. "Green" can look "blue" very easily. Also did experiments with the shape and density of the optics needed. With the advances in the science of glass, led to making 'disc' signals obsolete, the 'ball' signals obsolete, and even semaphore 'blade' signals obsolete. Once you could reliably have consistent colors, you could use just color light signals rather than other forms.

I'd love to have an insulator or two from when they take the codeline down...

Kick around in the weeds along the code line and you'll probably find some. I had one from the B&O from walking in the weeds waiting for a signal long enough. Found a couple "Date Nails" along the ATSF in Illinois doing the same thing one time, back when Date Nails were necessary to mark tie projects (before computers became common).

Practice safe CSX

[BnOEngr]

B&O Toledo Sub had the high voltage lines carried on white ceramic insulators. The former C&O Columbus Sub carried the high voltage on black insulators. Not sure of the composition. They were both consistently on the bottom crossarm, farthest from the track.

[Saturnalia]

I'm not talking about a different color for each wire, I mean like xbar 1 would be green, #2 clear, #3 green, etc.

Yeah, that's why I said:

I don't know if they 'color coded' their insulators, as that sounds too expensive.

I was confirming what you were thinking...

[CSX_CO]

I'm not talking about a different color for each wire, I mean like xbar 1 would be green, #2 clear, #3 green, etc.

Yeah, that's why I said:

I don't know if they 'color coded' their insulators, as that sounds too expensive.

I was confirming what you were thinking...

Yeah, ok, whatever. Most people when confirming a fact or statement would then say "So, just to clarify..." or "So what you're saying is...". They wouldn't start out by saying "I'm not talking about..." if they were trying to *confirm* a line of thought. Plus, I was pretty clear with the point I was getting across in the first post. It is ok to be wrong about something, you assumed they color coded their insulators, and they did not.

Practice Safe CSX

[CSX_CO]

B&O Toledo Sub had the high voltage lines carried on white ceramic insulators. The former C&O Columbus Sub carried the high voltage on black insulators. Not sure of the composition. They were both consistently on the bottom crossarm, farthest from the track.

Don't know if they are like the other black ones I've seen, but the ones I've laid my hands on were a rubber substance.

KMRHS has a couple of the third rail insulators the MUR used between K-zoo and Grand Rapids out in the country. Pretty cool looking. I've heard if you go kicking around in certain locations on former MUR ROW between K-zoo and GR you can still find those big ceramic insulators along the ROW. I never did go myself, but always thought it would be cool to have one of those as a conversation piece.

Practice Safe CSX

[Eric Berger]

Thanks for your insight, everyone! Clears up a bit about not only insulators, but also why some lines seemed to have way more wires alongside the ROW than others. Apparently there was more than met the eye about those poles!

MQT3001, if you're looking for insulators, I suggest visiting a railroad memorabilia or general train show; I've seen insulators at both types more often than not...

--Eric

[Mark F]

The Friends of the River Valley Rail-Trails has a couple buckets full from when they pulled the rails in the Belding area. We were trying to figure out if we could make some type of fundraiser out of them. If you talk to Mayor Gunderson in Belding he would probably be happy to part with as many as you wanted in exchange for a donation to the trail group.

[GP30M4216]

If you're looking for insulators, you don't even need to wait for a train show - many antique stores carry them for reasonable prices. Sometimes, if the vendor knows they'll even tell you where they came from. Hemingray is perhaps the best known company when it comes to glass insulators used by railroads. Do a google search and you'll find out plenty about the various glass colors and style designs.

I think one place where lineside "hot" power is still provided on the pole line is on the BNSF over Raton Pass. From my travels over the pass on the Southwest Chief, you can clearly see matched pairs of wire using glass insulators closest to the track, with the farthest two insulators being ceramic and holding a different type of wire. Raton definitely qualifies as a remote location! Unfortunately, I don't have any really good photos depicting the crossarms in clear detail to show this.

Some of you long time board members here might remember the year I showed up to the spring Durand meet with my car trunk full of glass insulators. I had acquired them when Amtrak was cutting down the last of the code line segment on the west side of Kalamazoo along the Michigan Line and saved them for preservation. At the Durand meet, anyone who contributed money toward our unofficial donation to the Michigan Railroad History Museum (in the depot) could choose an insulator in return. Unlike most insulators you find, these still had short segments of copper wire attached. I also donated several to the National NYC RR Museum in Elkhart, where at least in 2007 they were used as a small artifact display about communication along the NYC. I'm not sure if that display is still intact at the museum or not. Most of them were clear or blue Hemingray-42s.

You can see some of the poles which "donated" insulators when they were removed in this photo from Kalamazoo in 2003:

[CSX_CO]

I've seen some cool mailboxes made from the cut down pole with the cross arms. Set your mail box on the top arm, and the ones below it retain the insulators.

Practice Safe CSX

[Standard Railfan]

Although this site is primarily focused on telephone lines, there is a lot of great information about signals contained therein.

http://www.the-electric-orphanage.org/

[bctrainfan]

An amazing amount of info on there!

[GreatLakesRailfan]

Some of you long time board members here might remember the year I showed up to the spring Durand meet with my car trunk full of glass insulators. I had acquired them when Amtrak was cutting down the last of the code line segment on the west side of Kalamazoo along the Michigan Line and saved them for preservation. At the Durand meet, anyone who contributed money toward our unofficial donation to the Michigan Railroad History Museum (in the depot) could choose an insulator in return. Unlike most insulators you find, these still had short segments of copper wire attached. I also donated several to the National NYC RR Museum in Elkhart, where at least in 2007 they were used as a small artifact display about communication along the NYC. I'm not sure if that display is still intact at the museum or not. Most of them were clear or blue Hemingray-42s.

I remember buying one of those from you, Nathan. I think it's still in the trunk of my car to this day. Something to keep in mind, MQT- as cool as you think an insulator like that would be to have doesn't mean your parents will let you keep it in the house...which has a lot to do with why I keep mine in the car. Having the copper wire still attached makes the piece much more interesting than a simple glass insulator is. Especially when it's just one insulator.

[CAT345C]

Last year I did some ATV'ing with permission and picked up a lot of insulators, who was looking for some? I can ship them to you as long as you cover cost.

[MagnumForce]

An insulator is a tiny little thing, why in the world would your parents not let it in the house? What kind of evil, knick knackless Parents do you have?