Michigan Central Schedule?

[Saturnalia]

Does anyone have a good amount of detail on the freight and passenger schedules on the Michigan Central Mainline (Michigan Line today) around 1950? Or 1960?

All I need are train numbers/symbols, origin and destination notes. Passenger, Freight and Locals would be nice.

Thanks in advance

[railohio]

Look for timetables and official guides at train shows.

[Ypsi]

I have learned "estimated" freight and passenger counts through your the years, But to be safe the "wide range" for the 50's would be 50 to 70 trains a day. I believe at this time on th NYC there were about 10 or so (give or take) passenger trains each way, and about 20 freights or so each way. Finding a passenger time table will be easy, the "Canada southern" group online has tons of NYC info including timetables. Freights are a little more of a toss up, more yards and interchanges along the way along with more locals that might not be as well documented. The "hottest" trains on the Michigan Line would be the CHI-NYC meat trains.

The route was busy during this era because it was the fastest route from NYC to CHI via southern Canada. Freight trains would route from NYC to Buffalo, head through Canada on the "Canada Southern" route to Detroit, continue west to Kalamazoo where most freights would take a turn south to Elkhart for classification. Passenger trains would do pretty much the same, but they would all (as far as I know) continue west through the Zoo and take the current route to Chicago.

I'll do some fact checking with some people I know and edit this if necessary

[CSX_CO]

I'll do some fact checking with some people I know and edit this if necessary

I'd start with the date that Elkhart started 'classifying' stuff. The Elkhart Yard didn't open until the mid to late 60's. By then the railroad decline was in full swing. MC fell from favor when Elkhart opened and they shut down Niles and moved the work to Elkhart. Like its older sister to the south in Avon (which opened in 1960 IIRC), Elkhart allowed for the considation of the work from several yards on several different routes, into one terminal.

Practice Safe CSX

[cbehr91]

Public timetables: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/ptt/timetables.htm
1964 freight schedule: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/nyc- ... s-1964.htm

You're welcome.

[StupidFlee​t]

I'd start with the date that Elkhart started 'classifying' stuff. The Elkhart Yard didn't open until the mid to late 60's. By then the railroad decline was in full swing. MC fell from favor when Elkhart opened and they shut down Niles and moved the work to Elkhart. Like its older sister to the south in Avon (which opened in 1960 IIRC), Elkhart allowed for the considation of the work from several yards on several different routes, into one terminal.

Practice Safe CSX

So is it Elkhart's fault that trains don't run in Michigan anymore?

[JStryker722]

I'd start with the date that Elkhart started 'classifying' stuff. The Elkhart Yard didn't open until the mid to late 60's. By then the railroad decline was in full swing. MC fell from favor when Elkhart opened and they shut down Niles and moved the work to Elkhart. Like its older sister to the south in Avon (which opened in 1960 IIRC), Elkhart allowed for the considation of the work from several yards on several different routes, into one terminal.

Practice Safe CSX

So is it Elkhart's fault that trains don't run in Michigan anymore?

It's not as straight forward as that. There is a number of things that led to the decline of the MC:

1. The LS&MS " Airline" doomed it to eventual decay in hindsight when completed in the 1850s to secondary main status once both MC and LS&MS became controlled by NYC.
2. Post-WW2 competition from trucks for local freight and cars/planes for passengers.
3. Consolidation of classification to Elkhart.
4. The shaky state of 60-80's railroad industry as a whole.
5. Conrail selling the CSAO and taking most through freights off the MC in the 80s in favor of the ex-LS&MS for NYC/Boston-Chicago traffic.
6. The overall relocation of manufacturing away from Michigan that used rail.

[CSX_CO]

It's not as straight forward as that.

It really is. Niles was where the freight to/from Chicago and Detroit was classified, the primary reason for the MC's existence. When that work was consolidated/moved to Elkhart, yes traffic had diminished, but it didn't disappear completely. Ultimately, the use is Elkhart as the primary classification point is the MC fell out of favor. There is still considerable traffic between Detroit and Chicago (points west) but it is all handled at Elkhart. I believe that the CSAO and MC routing was 'more direct' and 'faster', between Chicago and Boston/New York, than staying stateside, but it didn't hit Elkhart and thus didn't warrant keeping as a through route.

Elkhart saves the same purpose as Avon. Allowed New York Central (and Penn Central and Conrail) to consolidate work around the region, into one location. Elkhart allowed work done in Chicago to be done outside of the terminal, and work done at yards around the region (Niles, Kalamazoo, Michigan City, etc). Avon and Elkhart together caused the death of Logansport as a major terminal. In the case of Avon it allowed for Hill Yard and Brightwood Yard on the NYC in Indianapolis to be closed, and Hawthorne converted into a 'local' yard. Further out, on the PRR side, Duane's role in Terre Haute was reduced, Richmond was completely shut down, by passed, and abandoned. Even as far out as St Louis, Avon allowed for preblocking of trains to the western carriers, something that hadn't been done on a 'full train' basis much before the 50's.

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[JStryker722]

It's not as straight forward as that.

It really is. Niles was where the freight to/from Chicago and Detroit was classified, the primary reason for the MC's existence. When that work was consolidated/moved to Elkhart, yes traffic had diminished, but it didn't disappear completely. Ultimately, the use is Elkhart as the primary classification point is the MC fell out of favor. There is still considerable traffic between Detroit and Chicago (points west) but it is all handled at Elkhart. I believe that the CSAO and MC routing was 'more direct' and 'faster', between Chicago and Boston/New York, than staying stateside, but it didn't hit Elkhart and thus didn't warrant keeping as a through route.

Elkhart saves the same purpose as Avon. Allowed New York Central (and Penn Central and Conrail) to consolidate work around the region, into one location. Elkhart allowed work done in Chicago to be done outside of the terminal, and work done at yards around the region (Niles, Kalamazoo, Michigan City, etc). Avon and Elkhart together caused the death of Logansport as a major terminal. In the case of Avon it allowed for Hill Yard and Brightwood Yard on the NYC in Indianapolis to be closed, and Hawthorne converted into a 'local' yard. Further out, on the PRR side, Duane's role in Terre Haute was reduced, Richmond was completely shut down, by passed, and abandoned. Even as far out as St Louis, Avon allowed for preblocking of trains to the western carriers, something that hadn't been done on a 'full train' basis much before the 50's.

Practice Safe CSX

That is true but my other reasonings at least intensified the situation.

[rrboomer]

CSX_CO wrote in part...

"I'd start with the date that Elkhart started 'classifying' stuff. The Elkhart Yard didn't open until the mid to late 60's."
***************************************

I think Elkhart was open for business around 1958 or so. By 1960 there was only one thru freight between Niles and Jackson, used to go east through Lawton
early afternoon and west around 2am.

Dick Haave

[TrainWatcher]

IIRC when Elkhart opened, it also slowly killed the Livernois Hump as well. A lot of local cars were sorted there, and sent out. My grandfather was on one of the East hump crews. Power was usually a switcher (logs from 1971 show SW's and even GP7/9 pairs).

[bdconrail29]

Public timetables: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/ptt/timetables.htm
1964 freight schedule: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/nyc- ... s-1964.htm

You're welcome.

The schedule doesn't differentiate the old way and new way. A lot of those symbols ran Chicago Line and not MC. I do like the links though. Look at all of those Boston symbols and even in CR days there was what, maybe 1 freight left from Boston that went to Elkhart?

And whoever said 50-70/day? Um, no.

[CSX_CO]

CSX_CO wrote in part...

"I'd start with the date that Elkhart started 'classifying' stuff. The Elkhart Yard didn't open until the mid to late 60's."
***************************************

I think Elkhart was open for business around 1958 or so. By 1960 there was only one thru freight between Niles and Jackson, used to go east through Lawton
early afternoon and west around 2am.

Dick Haave

Interesting. I was always under the impression that Avon was built first, and the lessons learned there after opening were applied to Elkhart. As it turns out, Elkhart was opened in 1958, and Avon in 1960, so I had the lineage reversed. I know Buckeye followed Avon. Which is curious as 'small' as Avon was built, I would have thought Elkhart came after they learned their lessons of build big from the beginning.

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[bdconrail29]

Buckeye wasn't until Penn Central in 1968. I'm guessing to merge all of the NYC and PRR yards into one yard?

[CSX_CO]

Buckeye wasn't until Penn Central in 1968. I'm guessing to merge all of the NYC and PRR yards into one yard?

Yeah, I think that was the reasoning behind Buckeye. Served as a gateway to 'coal country' and allowed a lot of older smaller yards in Columbus to be consolidated into one. I just had my lineage backwards between Avon and Elkhart. I really thought Avon was 'first', then NYC took what they learned there, built Elkhart (Selkirk was upgraded somewhere in here too I believe), and Buckeye was the consummation of what was learned from both Elkhart and Avon.

[cbehr91]

Buckeye consolidated I'd say at least six yards in Columbus (East Columbus, Grandview, Big Four, Yards A & B and Grogan) and probably a whole host of smaller ones. Although I was under the impression construction of the yard did not begin until the Penn Central merger. I knew it was open in '70, so I always assumed in opened in '69 or very early in '70. It benefited Penn Central greatly, but once Conrail shifted traffic away from Columbus and definitely into the post-split years, Buckeye became an island on the system.

Oh yeah, IIRC on that site with the schedules there was one from the late 40s (maybe 1949).