Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Any historical questions can be posted here. Answers would certainly help as well :)

Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby PerRock » Wed May 02, 2012 12:30 am

amtrak1007 wrote:Also of note, there are no cars in phase V, the paint schemes are considered IVa, IVb, with the difference in the color of the blue and some text options.


That's not entirely true; there are no Passenger Cars in phase V. All passenger cars are in either IVb or a route-specific paint job (like the AmCal, Surfliner, Capsone on the NEC, etc). However the engines are in phase V.
This Wikipedia article explains the Phases quite well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_paint_schemes and for you that don't think anything is right on Wikipedia, I can verify that it is correct, as I'm one of the few that maintains the article.

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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby GP30M4216 » Wed May 02, 2012 10:15 am

I'm not going to argue, but I've always referred to the current passenger car scheme as Phase V because:
-It uses the current Amtrak logo, matching the logo used on Phase V locomotives; this logo is different than Phase IV,
-The stripe pattern, while the same outline as Phase IV, uses a different blue, matching the blue used on the Phase V locomotives
-It includes the red sill stripe, which matches current Phase V locomotives

This is the same reasoning as was used with Phase I. Phase I locomotives had no stripes and sported the unmistakable "Bloody nose." The sides featured large headless arrow logos. The rolling stock, however, had stripes, and no red ends. They correlated with the locomotives by also having the headless arrow logo set within the stripes at each end of the car. Stripes didn't unify the locomotives and the cars, but logos did. The same holds true, in my mind, for Phase V designation to both cars and equipment. Just my reasoning.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby ConrailMan5 » Sun May 06, 2012 12:53 am

Try talking to the station agents, most of them have been there for 30 plus years, i recall back a few years talking to the AA agent and he mentioned how he had been around since the turbos. plus that gives you an excuse to visit the station ( maybe take a trip too)
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby Jetlink » Sun May 06, 2012 6:27 pm

I rode 355 last night from Battle Creek to Chicago Union. The conductor referred to the train as "The Twilight Limited" several times. He looked and acted like he easily could have had 30 years in. The assistant conductor, who was a much younger lady, called the train "The Wolverine" a few times. Either way it was neat to hear the older, and I would argue, more traditional name used.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby Standard Railfan » Mon May 07, 2012 6:50 am

Jetlink Driver wrote:I rode 355 last night from Battle Creek to Chicago Union. The conductor referred to the train as "The Twilight Limited" several times. He looked and acted like he easily could have had 30 years in. The assistant conductor, who was a much younger lady, called the train "The Wolverine" a few times. Either way it was neat to hear the older, and I would argue, more traditional name used.


Twilight Limited is a much better name. Not only because of nostalgia. Tell someone you are taking the Wolverine from Chicago and they are forced to ask, which one? Maybe they should be the Morning, Afternoon, and Twilight Wolverines.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby Ypsi » Wed May 14, 2014 4:35 pm

This is an old thread, and I already got a ton of great information out of it, but today I was checking out the 1988 Wolverine cab ride video (which has been posted on this site before I believe), and noticed something off about one of the apposing Amtrak trains (350 or its 1988 version/ # based on the time and its the first EB you see)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAikJc67tO4

And I noticed that it had some bi-level coaches on it that weren't superliners.

Image

In fact they were the old bi-levels that Amtrak used on some of its Chicago based trains in the 80's. You can tell by the stripes on the lower windows and style of the middle door.

Image

I found this interesting because they were not mentioned previously in the consist info that we have already shared and been shared with. This leads me to believe that these cars made a very short appearance on the wolverines or no one noticed. I would bet they didn't last long if they were still set up like commuter coaches though, a little cramped for a 300 mile trip as compared to the Horizens or Amfleets. There was an amfleet on the end of the consist that may have been a cab car of café, I couldn't tell.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby Todd Cline » Thu May 15, 2014 12:06 am

WOW! that was a great trip down "memory lane". Every image here represented an era that I can remember. Even the D&H Alco PA units. I saw one of them going east on the Amtrak bluewater ltd. one evening. Probably right after their rebuild at Morrison-Knudsen out in Idaho. I don't know the exact date, I was just a young kid at the time. But they came east on the Amtrak/GTW route through Battle Creek. That much I can swear to.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby dmitzel » Mon May 19, 2014 8:56 am

The old Amtrak, ex-C&NW bi-levels were not former commuter equipment like you see on Metra today. They were HEP-equipped long distance cars with traditional footrest seats - used by the North Western for the intercity Chicago-Milwaukee-Green Bay runs. When Amtrak was formed in '71 these went into service as part of the C&NW's cash-and-equipment "buy-in" to transfer their passenger liabilities into the new NRPC entity. The commuter-seating cars were kept by the CNW as they continued to manage the West, Northwest and North lines until RTA-Metra took over in the late '70s.

Thanks for sharing this - makes me want to order a set to run behind an AMTK F40 on my HO layout.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby fmilhaupt » Fri May 30, 2014 7:27 am

If I remember correctly, Amtrak used the ex-C&NW bi-level coaches mainly on the ex-Pennsy commuter run they used to handle from Chicago down to Valparaiso.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby MagnumForce » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:49 pm

In my time growing up in Michigan and frequenting the Jackson Station at train time all I ever recall seeing from about 1990 on was F40's and metroliner cabcars and amfleets with a smattering of horizons. Then Genesis units with cabcars, then cabbages and now the current doubles ended genesis units and horizons.

I am sure GP40tc's and P32's made the rounds from time to time as well.

Prior to that the early Amtrak years surely saw E units and heritage cars, then the Turboliners were around from 75-81, by 81 I am pretty certain that F40's were about the only thing you would have seen with maybe some very rare occasions of a Pooch or a big SD, but that would not have been common in any way, shape, or form.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby ns8401 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:11 pm

MagnumForce wrote:In my time growing up in Michigan and frequenting the Jackson Station at train time all I ever recall seeing from about 1990 on was F40's and metroliner cabcars and amfleets with a smattering of horizons. Then Genesis units with cabcars, then cabbages and now the current doubles ended genesis units and horizons.

I am sure GP40tc's and P32's made the rounds from time to time as well.

Prior to that the early Amtrak years surely saw E units and heritage cars, then the Turboliners were around from 75-81, by 81 I am pretty certain that F40's were about the only thing you would have seen with maybe some very rare occasions of a Pooch or a big SD, but that would not have been common in any way, shape, or form.

Pooches and SD's did run, I also saw some P32's commonly in the mid 90's.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby Burb8145 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:46 pm

Second time this thread has been bumped...

amtrak1007 wrote:IIRC, the last run to TOL was june of 1993.


Actually, the Detroit-Toledo service ended in the spring of 1995. I distinctly remember that period because even well into 1994 I still occasionally saw F40s with Amfleet/Horizon consists speeding on the Detroit Line through Wyandotte.

After that, the only other Amtrak trains that still crossed Oak Street were the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited reroutes and Clinton's 1996 campaign train, which stopped near Oak Street.
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby Ypsi » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:50 pm

Thanks for the bump! This has been one of my favorite threads thanks to descriptive write ups and memories of Amtrak Michigan services of the past 8) that would be a sight to see roaring for the MC :)
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby ConrailDetr​oit » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:21 am

Back in the days of F40s, did anyone ever see the trains runs in Push Pull with an F40 on both ends like the P42s today?
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Re: Amtrak Woverine power/ coaches

Unread postby Burb8145 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:56 am

milineamtrak wrote:Back in the days of F40s, did anyone ever see the trains runs in Push Pull with an F40 on both ends like the P42s today?


Not me personally, but there was this on the first page...

GP30M4216 wrote:Here's another Dearborn photo, this time 351, leaving Dearborn with F40 class leader 200 bringing up the markers. F40 316 was in the lead on this somewhat rare occasion during this era when a powered unit was on each end. March 1995:
Image


Also, I found out yesterday that in 2000, Amtrak wanted to resurrect service between Detroit and Toledo-but operating non-stop from Dearborn to Toledo. I'm sure it never went past the "service to begin at date to be announced" stage in one 2000 timetable.
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