Ann Arbor signals? Cadillac turn Q

[MIGN-Todd]

I've seen numerous photos showing the large target signals along the Annie. Mostly were at Junctions like Thompsonville (with the C&O) and Cadillac (Penn, MIGN). In its hey-day, alot of trains ran daily over the line. Did they have an early CTC or Block signal system or did a dispatcher just keep tabs? I figured AARR would know. Plus, when FO/FT trains left towards Cadillac, I read that the Cadillac turn was added into these trains when needed. Were the engine and cars just coupled to the rear and pulled along to Cadillac or just the cars to be greeting by a waiting loco at Cadillac? Since Cadillac didn't have engine facilities it just made me wonder. Thanks in advance

[MIGN-Todd]

You guys are killing me! I would have thought for sure somebody out there would have known.

[AARR]

Plus, when FO/FT trains left towards Cadillac, I read that the Cadillac turn was added into these trains when needed. Were the engine and cars just coupled to the rear and pulled along to Cadillac or just the cars to be greeting by a waiting loco at Cadillac? Since Cadillac didn't have engine facilities it just made me wonder. Thanks in advance

The TF crew would arrive around 7am and FT depart around 10am. The union agreement allowed the crew from the TF train to be paid while on rest in exchange for a trip to Cadillac and back if needed. So normally the FC turn would depart an hour or two after FT. FC ran a couple times a week at best.

Sorry, I am not able to answer your signal questions.

[Standard Railfan]

You guys are killing me! I would have thought for sure somebody out there would have known.

Just making you sweat a bit.

As far as I know, the west end of the AA (Owosso to Elberta) never had any signals other than semaphores at stations where operators were stationed. I don't know about the east end.

IIRC in the early 70s there was an operator at Ashley, Mt. Pleasant, and Cadillac. I remember the operator at MP would call the dispatcher in Owosso and then set the semaphore to proceed at the end of his work day around 1630-1700 for the road trains that ran overnight. The next morning he would set the semaphore to stop, call the dispatcher and see what was happening that day.

The target signals were to my knowledge all C&O signals maintained by same. If you look at the photos, they all look like the standard search light signal used by the PM/C&O. You will also only see them at PM/C&O crossings.

What I don't remember ever seeing was the protection for the AA/PRR crossing in Cadillac. I know both railroads had stations near the crossing. The AA was practically on top of the crossing so I assume the AA operated what ever was there.

[rrboomer]

Only ABS I ever knew about was between Ann Arbor and Milan.

[ns8401]

Only ABS I ever knew about was between Ann Arbor and Milan.

Also signals at Diann IIRC

[MIGN-Todd]

Thanks guys, as always. AARR's slowing down a tad- I expected him to be all over that one as soon as it hit!

[AARR]

Thanks guys, as always. AARR's slowing down a tad- I expected him to be all over that one as soon as it hit!

I'm getting old and slow

[Saturnalia]

Thanks guys, as always. AARR's slowing down a tad- I expected him to be all over that one as soon as it hit!

I'm getting old and slow

No, its because that he is afraid that I will take over his most irrelevant title, so posting something relevant would have weakend he "throne"

[MIGN-Todd]

God Save The King

[C&O Dispatcher]

The Ann Arbor was strictly a train order operation and the "semaphores" at the depots were train order signals. (In later years, the CTC was installed between Diann and Alexis and that movement would have been by signal indication.) Also in the 1970's they began replacing the semaphores with just two indication flashing green or red train order signals. In either case, before the dispatcher transmitted the order, the operator would display the signal at stop for that direction. If the order did not require the train to stop, the operator could give a hand signal to recieve the orders from the order hoops without stopping. As far as between Owosso and Boat Landing, the C&O crossing at Alma was non-interlocked with a stop board and a tilting target signal. If it was horizontal (for C&O movement), an AA crew member would have to change it to diagonal before proceeding. Clare was an automatic interlocking. We could code the signals for C&O movment on our CTC panel in Saginaw, but the signal would not actually clear until our train was on the approach about 4 miles away from the diamond. However, if an Ann Arbor train hit their approach before our train, the signal would line for the AA to cross and would then line for our movement after the AA train cleared. Cadillac (PRR/MIGN) and Thompsonville (C&O) were strictly automatic interlockings; whoever hit their approach circuit first got the signal. These signals only authorized movement to cross the intersecting railroad; actual authority for train movement was by train order. Back in the 60's, I used to hang out at the depot in Ashley and got to know the agent. (As a side note, on the C&O most of the train order signals were 3 position and you could display a yellow indication to deliver orders without stopping the train.)

[Standard Railfan]

Thank you C&O Dispatcher. I am glad someone who actually knows the system has posted a definitive answer.