Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby J T » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:55 am

I'd guess the area under the bridge was filled in to discourage off-roaders from using the ROW. Part of that line was still in place into the 70s or early 80s and ended at S Abraham & Sons on 3 Mile just west of Kinney. That building was constructed along the ROW for service, hence the angle of it in relation to 3 Mile. Beyond that the line was removed some time before 96 was built. Have you ever seen the tunnel under Elmridge? I think RDD has said trains never actually went through it, as by the time the tunnel was built to replace the wooden overpass, local service had ended.
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby SD80MAC » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:46 am

I have been told GTW began to fill under the bridge in preparation for removal of the bridge, the project got delayed, and by the time they were ready to resume, they were pretty much looking to divest themselves of west of Penn Jct and it wasn't deemed worth it. The blocking the of the ROW to prevent ORV traffic makes sense too.
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby MQT1223 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:48 am

J T wrote:I'd guess the area under the bridge was filled in to discourage off-roaders from using the ROW. Part of that line was still in place into the 70s or early 80s and ended at S Abraham & Sons on 3 Mile just west of Kinney. That building was constructed along the ROW for service, hence the angle of it in relation to 3 Mile. Beyond that the line was removed some time before 96 was built. Have you ever seen the tunnel under Elmridge? I think RDD has said trains never actually went through it, as by the time the tunnel was built to replace the wooden overpass, local service had ended.


What tunnel?
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby ~Z~ » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:24 pm

MQT1223 wrote:
J T wrote:I'd guess the area under the bridge was filled in to discourage off-roaders from using the ROW. Part of that line was still in place into the 70s or early 80s and ended at S Abraham & Sons on 3 Mile just west of Kinney. That building was constructed along the ROW for service, hence the angle of it in relation to 3 Mile. Beyond that the line was removed some time before 96 was built. Have you ever seen the tunnel under Elmridge? I think RDD has said trains never actually went through it, as by the time the tunnel was built to replace the wooden overpass, local service had ended.


What tunnel?

JT said:
J T wrote:the tunnel under Elmridge?


Pretty sure he means the tunnel under Elmridge Dr NW. Since you didn't bother to look at a map, here's a link for The Lazy: https://goo.gl/maps/qMdU6buGPFx
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby MQT1223 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:15 am

~Z~ wrote:
MQT1223 wrote:
J T wrote:I'd guess the area under the bridge was filled in to discourage off-roaders from using the ROW. Part of that line was still in place into the 70s or early 80s and ended at S Abraham & Sons on 3 Mile just west of Kinney. That building was constructed along the ROW for service, hence the angle of it in relation to 3 Mile. Beyond that the line was removed some time before 96 was built. Have you ever seen the tunnel under Elmridge? I think RDD has said trains never actually went through it, as by the time the tunnel was built to replace the wooden overpass, local service had ended.


What tunnel?

JT said:
J T wrote:the tunnel under Elmridge?


Pretty sure he means the tunnel under Elmridge Dr NW. Since you didn't bother to look at a map, here's a link for The Lazy: https://goo.gl/maps/qMdU6buGPFx


I wouldn't have even known where to look. I've never known there was a tunnel there.
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby J T » Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:42 am

MQT1223 wrote:I wouldn't have even known where to look. I've never known there was a tunnel there.

Don't fret it. I lived about 200 yards away from it for 2 years and didn't discover it until after I had moved elsewhere. :lol:
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby EWRice » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:08 pm

It is truly amazing what can sneak under one's radar. I spent 25 years riding my bike, then driving within 100 yds of a PRR caboose, and never new it was there until last year. Ferrysburg is much smaller than GR too.
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby MQT1223 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:08 am

EWRice wrote:It is truly amazing what can sneak under one's radar. I spent 25 years riding my bike, then driving within 100 yds of a PRR caboose, and never new it was there until last year. Ferrysburg is much smaller than GR too.

A PRR caboose is in Ferrysburg?
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby EWRice » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:17 pm

Hidden in plain sight. I don't know if it is actually a PRR, but is painted and numbered as such.
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby MQT1223 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:45 pm

EWRice wrote:Hidden in plain sight. I don't know if it is actually a PRR, but is painted and numbered as such.

Where?
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby Tom Carter » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:34 pm

Conrail GP7 5641 scoots through the new “Quonset hut”-type tunnel under Elmridge Drive that had just replaced the neat old wooden trestle in early 1978, confirming that the tunnel was, in fact, used. As you can see, the project wasn’t finished yet, but apparently this Geep just couldn’t wait to try it out. The line continued west to just across 3 Mile Road, initially to a lumber yard, and later to Eberhard’s warehouse which replaced it. I seem to recall that Eberhard’s warehouse had replaced the lumber yard by 1978, but I’m not certain. (S. Abraham & Sons is in the warehouse now.) I have another slide from March of 1979 of a Conrail Geep at Bristol Ave. and again in the tunnel, which I will post later once it’s been scanned.
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby SD80MAC » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:19 pm

Glad to see you posting here, Tom!
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby kenN » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:53 pm

Ditto, Tom. Welcome. KJN
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby Ben Higdon » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:41 am

I'd like to see those other pictures Tom!
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby Raildudes dad » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:55 am

Tom Carter wrote:Conrail GP7 5641 scoots through the new “Quonset hut”-type tunnel under Elmridge Drive that had just replaced the neat old wooden trestle in early 1978, confirming that the tunnel was, in fact, used. As you can see, the project wasn’t finished yet, but apparently this Geep just couldn’t wait to try it out. The line continued west to just across 3 Mile Road, initially to a lumber yard, and later to Eberhard’s warehouse which replaced it. I seem to recall that Eberhard’s warehouse had replaced the lumber yard by 1978, but I’m not certain. (S. Abraham & Sons is in the warehouse now.) I have another slide from March of 1979 of a Conrail Geep at Bristol Ave. and again in the tunnel, which I will post later once it’s been scanned.


I looked at the 1963 and 1978 aerial photos. There never was a lumber yard along the line in the vicinity of 3 Mile and Kinney, nothing but farm fields. The 1978 aerials show a car short of Kinney and white wrapped bundles, most likely lumber:). It's obvious transloading is going on there. No siding so the cars must have been pushed out. I remember seeing the cars there, StanDALE Lumber was getting the cars. I found a reference that Spartan was negotiating to buy the Eberhards chain and headquarters/distribution center in 1985-86 so the distribution center was built after 1978 and before 1985
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby cdressel » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:57 pm

Raildudes dad wrote:[quote=I looked at the 1963 and 1978 aerial photos. There never was a lumber yard along the line in the vicinity of 3 Mile and Kinney, nothing but farm fields. The 1978 aerials show a car short of Kinney and white wrapped bundles, most likely lumber:). It's obvious transloading is going on there. No siding so the cars must have been pushed out. I remember seeing the cars there, StanDALE Lumber was getting the cars. I found a reference that Spartan was negotiating to buy the Eberhards chain and headquarters/distribution center in 1985-86 so the distribution center was built after 1978 and before 1985


I grew up near the corner of Kinney and Richmond and spent many days walking the tracks from Bristol to Kinney. No, there was no lumber yard near the intersection of Kinney and 3-Mile, but there was a large lumber shed. The lumber shed was on the south side of the tracks, immediately east of Kinney. Standale Lumber unloaded lumber directly from the rail cars onto the racking under the shed roof. This was about 1955 to 1960. I don't remember there being a siding there. I remember the cars being unloaded right on the "main". By this time, the track had been cut north of 3-Mile anyway, so it wasn't a through track to Muskegon - just one long, long siding from GR to serve Standale Lumber. There was maybe one movement every four or five weeks to bring new car loads and retrieve the empty cars. Each movement was 2 or 3 cars pushed by a locomotive and a caboose. I used to watch them go by from under the trestle at Elmridge.

I think the lumber shed was removed sometime prior to 1965. Sounds like after the lumber shed was removed, Standale Lumber still received cars but used transloading, rather then temporarily storing the lumber in the shed. Maybe an aerial prior to 1963 would show the shed. I remember the shed being large (in the eyes of a kid); maybe about 24 ft. x 200 ft.

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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby MQT1223 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:49 pm

Couldn't have been too many trains that passed under Elmridge Drive with the then new setup.
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby Raildudes dad » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:41 am

cdressel wrote:
I grew up near the corner of Kinney and Richmond and spent many days walking the tracks from Bristol to Kinney. No, there was no lumber yard near the intersection of Kinney and 3-Mile, but there was a large lumber shed. The lumber shed was on the south side of the tracks, immediately east of Kinney. Standale Lumber unloaded lumber directly from the rail cars onto the racking under the shed roof. This was about 1955 to 1960. I don't remember there being a siding there. I remember the cars being unloaded right on the "main". By this time, the track had been cut north of 3-Mile anyway, so it wasn't a through track to Muskegon - just one long, long siding from GR to serve Standale Lumber. There was maybe one movement every four or five weeks to bring new car loads and retrieve the empty cars. Each movement was 2 or 3 cars pushed by a locomotive and a caboose. I used to watch them go by from under the trestle at Elmridge.

I think the lumber shed was removed sometime prior to 1965. Sounds like after the lumber shed was removed, Standale Lumber still received cars but used transloading, rather then temporarily storing the lumber in the shed. Maybe an aerial prior to 1963 would show the shed. I remember the shed being large (in the eyes of a kid); maybe about 24 ft. x 200 ft.

Chuck


I had the wrong year. I looked at the 1954 and 1978 aerials. I didn't climb the ladder to get the 1963's (I should have :( ).
Look at the USGS link http://historicalmaps.arcgis.com/usgs/ Ravenna quadrangle in 1945 and Marne quadrangle in 1980. There a siding in both and a shed in 1980

I looked at the 63 photos this morning. the siding is gone and a 400 foot long shed in it's place.

Interesting pieces to the puzzle :)
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby J T » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:17 pm

cdressel wrote:
I grew up near the corner of Kinney and Richmond and spent many days walking the tracks from Bristol to Kinney. No, there was no lumber yard near the intersection of Kinney and 3-Mile, but there was a large lumber shed. The lumber shed was on the south side of the tracks, immediately east of Kinney. Standale Lumber unloaded lumber directly from the rail cars onto the racking under the shed roof. This was about 1955 to 1960. I don't remember there being a siding there. I remember the cars being unloaded right on the "main". By this time, the track had been cut north of 3-Mile anyway, so it wasn't a through track to Muskegon - just one long, long siding from GR to serve Standale Lumber. There was maybe one movement every four or five weeks to bring new car loads and retrieve the empty cars. Each movement was 2 or 3 cars pushed by a locomotive and a caboose. I used to watch them go by from under the trestle at Elmridge.

I think the lumber shed was removed sometime prior to 1965. Sounds like after the lumber shed was removed, Standale Lumber still received cars but used transloading, rather then temporarily storing the lumber in the shed. Maybe an aerial prior to 1963 would show the shed. I remember the shed being large (in the eyes of a kid); maybe about 24 ft. x 200 ft.

Chuck

Great historical info, Chuck! Thanks for posting.

By the way, how often did you walk west of Kinney/3 Mile to the stone arch bridge? I often wonder what it would have looked to see a train crossing it, especially with a more wide open view (quite grown over now, of course).

archbridge.jpg
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Re: Kinney Spur and Penn Junction

Unread postby cdressel » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:38 am

Well, now I know what I missed! I never went west of Kinney.
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