Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

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Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by redlodger »

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to track down the identity of a building that was at the end of the Ann Arbor spur in the north end of Dundee. It shows up in topographic maps from 1942 and 1972. It was located near the corner of Tecumseh Street and Barnum Street. Going by what's there today, it's a sparsely wooded area roughly behind 215 and 239 Barnum Street, and north of the parking lots of the Huntington Bank and the Old National Bank on Tecumseh Street. Below is a snippet of the 1972 map showing the Ann Arbor spur, and the building at the lower left, below the red number 13:

[
Untitled.png

I've put the question to family and friends in Dundee and the surrounding area, and it may have been an alfalfa mill. Does anyone know what this building was?

Thanks,
Mark
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by ns8401 »

redlodger wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:19 am
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to track down the identity of a building that was at the end of the Ann Arbor spur in the north end of Dundee. It shows up in topographic maps from 1942 and 1972. It was located near the corner of Tecumseh Street and Barnum Street. Going by what's there today, it's a sparsely wooded area roughly behind 215 and 239 Barnum Street, and north of the parking lots of the Huntington Bank and the Old National Bank on Tecumseh Street. Below is a snippet of the 1972 map showing the Ann Arbor spur, and the building at the lower left, below the red number 13:

[Untitled.png


I've put the question to family and friends in Dundee and the surrounding area, and it may have been an alfalfa mill. Does anyone know what this building was?

Thanks,
Mark
My understanding is that it was a business like that. The track that comes off the Ann Arbor is a connector to the old Detroit Toledo and Milwaukee which was abandoned in 1932 iirc. It didn’t go all the way around like the track on the map though. It would have gone straight east west. So after the curve from the Ann Arbor straightens out that’s the DT&M mainline. The portion that curves to the left farther west towards the spot you’re asking about would have been added by the Ann Arbor later on. This is the same spur still used to reach Cleantech today.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by DaveO »

Siding is shown on 1923 Sanborn Map. At that time I think it would have been a spur off of the DT&I.
I don't think there was an alfalfa mill there.
Here is a link to the Dundee Sanborn Maps online at the Library of Congress. Judge for yourself.
https://www.loc.gov/collections/sanborn ... ion:dundee

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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by ns8401 »

DaveO wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:29 pm
Siding is shown on 1923 Sanborn Map. At that time I think it would have been a spur off of the DT&I.
I don't think there was an alfalfa mill there.
Here is a link to the Dundee Sanborn Maps online at the Library of Congress. Judge for yourself.
https://www.loc.gov/collections/sanborn ... ion:dundee
You mean the DT&M? It looks like it came off to the left from their mainline.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by DaveO »

ns8401 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:41 pm
DaveO wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:29 pm
Siding is shown on 1923 Sanborn Map. At that time I think it would have been a spur off of the DT&I.
I don't think there was an alfalfa mill there.
Here is a link to the Dundee Sanborn Maps online at the Library of Congress. Judge for yourself.
https://www.loc.gov/collections/sanborn ... ion:dundee
You mean the DT&M? It looks like it came off to the left from their mainline.
Remember the DT&I rerouted the mainline. Dundee was on the DT&I Old Main.

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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by Standard Railfan »

I examined the Sanborn maps for Dundee from the 1940s. The only businesses shown at the end of the spur are automobile service and fuel dealers. None of the buildings seem as large as that shown on the topo map shown in the original post. See sheet 4

There was a fairly large alfalfa mill located on the same spur on the north side of town between Ypsilanti and Dunham streets. See sheet 3

https://www.loc.gov/resource/g4114dm.g ... 95,0.495,0

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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by ns8401 »

DaveO wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:52 pm
ns8401 wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:41 pm
DaveO wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:29 pm
Siding is shown on 1923 Sanborn Map. At that time I think it would have been a spur off of the DT&I.
I don't think there was an alfalfa mill there.
Here is a link to the Dundee Sanborn Maps online at the Library of Congress. Judge for yourself.
https://www.loc.gov/collections/sanborn ... ion:dundee
You mean the DT&M? It looks like it came off to the left from their mainline.
Remember the DT&I rerouted the mainline. Dundee was on the DT&I Old Main.
The line at that spot is the Detroit Toledo and Milwaukee, from there it went to Britton and points west. It was abandoned by NYC in 1932. The original DT&I was further to the south.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by DaveO »

My use of the "Old Main" before is incorrect as it was actually the Toledo-Detroit to which I was referring.

The line in question was built by the Toledo-Detroit Railroad. It ran from Dundee to Toledo and came under control of the DT&I.
The DT&I Old Main refers to the section between Dundee and Raisinville. The DT&I "Old Main" from Dundee west/south used the DT&M for track rights.

Things changed greatly when DT&I relocated to the current track and acquired the Ann Arbor. No need for the Toledo-Detroit anymore.

The DT&I Old Main did run through Dundee. The DT&I Toledo connection did run south from Dundee.

Given the appearance on the 1923 Sanborn Map, they(edit--the spurs) would have been part of the DT&I when built.

The current INOH, former DT&I line to the south is 100% not the original mainline.

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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by redlodger »

DaveO wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:29 pm
Siding is shown on 1923 Sanborn Map. At that time I think it would have been a spur off of the DT&I.
I don't think there was an alfalfa mill there.
Here is a link to the Dundee Sanborn Maps online at the Library of Congress. Judge for yourself.
https://www.loc.gov/collections/sanborn ... ion:dundee
Standard Railfan wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:46 pm
I examined the Sanborn maps for Dundee from the 1940s. The only businesses shown at the end of the spur are automobile service and fuel dealers. None of the buildings seem as large as that shown on the topo map shown in the original post. See sheet 4

There was a fairly large alfalfa mill located on the same spur on the north side of town between Ypsilanti and Dunham streets. See sheet 3

https://www.loc.gov/resource/g4114dm.g ... 95,0.495,0
I took a look at the maps this morning, and I see the mill on Sheet 3 of the 1938-1949 map. I remember my Dad telling me there was an alfalfa mill near the (old) high school, but I didn't think it was that close to it.

I think the building I asked about might be on Sheet 3 of the 1923 map, in the upper right hand corner. Or, at the least there is a building in the same location at that time. It's the long, narrow building that is partly cut off, and marked Poultry Warehouse and Coal Bins. It shows up Sheet 4 of the 1938 and 1938-1949 maps too. On the later maps the Poultry Warehouse section of the building is marked as Lime/Cement.
Last edited by redlodger on Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by ns8401 »

DaveO wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:02 am
My use of the "Old Main" before is incorrect as it was actually the Toledo-Detroit to which I was referring.

The line in question was built by the Toledo-Detroit Railroad. It ran from Dundee to Toledo and came under control of the DT&I.
The DT&I Old Main refers to the section between Dundee and Raisinville. The DT&I "Old Main" from Dundee west/south used the DT&M for track rights.

Things changed greatly when DT&I relocated to the current track and acquired the Ann Arbor. No need for the Toledo-Detroit anymore.

The DT&I Old Main did run through Dundee. The DT&I Toledo connection did run south from Dundee.

Given the appearance on the 1923 Sanborn Map, they(edit--the spurs) would have been part of the DT&I when built.

The current INOH, former DT&I line to the south is 100% not the original mainline.
I realize that completely, but that line just north of M50 that is currently relegated to Cleantech use is the one that went through Britton.
It was an NYC branch. Originally the Detroit Toledo and Milwaukee, abandoned by the NYC in 1932. The tower in Milan originally guarded this line crossing the Wabash in Britton.

The DT&I’s branch to Toledo went across well south of this and actually branched off at Petersburg Junction not Dundee. That line was ripped out in 1965 the year after the DT&I took control of the Ann Arbor. This and the DT&M are two totally separate lines several miles apart. We are talking about the DT&M that they had rights over here and not the actual DT&I. Nothing to do with the DT&I building it. They didn’t. Their use of rights on the DT&M came after the line was already there.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by DaveO »

I have no problem with the remaining spur having been the DT&M. But the original question was in regard to the area of Tecumseh and Barnum.
That would have been off of the Toledo-Detroit line- DT&I.

Meints Railroad Atlas of Michigan Volume 3 Page 223 (Monroe County-Dundee) will show you what I have stated is correct.
This is also backed up by other reference books.
I won't post the map for copyright reasons-the book is still available.
I haven't been able to find a online map that shows the rail lines in Dundee. The few websites I have found that discuss the DT&I don't go into any detail about Dundee.

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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by redlodger »

DaveO wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:31 am
I have no problem with the remaining spur having been the DT&M. But the original question was in regard to the area of Tecumseh and Barnum.
That would have been off of the Toledo-Detroit line- DT&I.

Meints Railroad Atlas of Michigan Volume 3 Page 223 (Monroe County-Dundee) will show you what I have stated is correct.
This is also backed up by other reference books.
I won't post the map for copyright reasons-the book is still available.
I haven't been able to find a online map that shows the rail lines in Dundee. The few websites I have found that discuss the DT&I don't go into any detail about Dundee.
I found an undated map showing the various railroads in Dundee on the Ann Arbor Railroad Technical and Historical Association website:

http://www.trainweb.org/annarbor/Dundee ... ew_HFB.htm

It shows the spur in question as part of the Toledo-Detroit/DT&I track through the north end of town. There is a history of the T-D on AARTHS that states a terminal was built along Tecumseh Street between Rawson Street and Barnum Street in 1905:

http://www.trainweb.org/annarbor/AARRHi ... -DT&I.html

The terminal was on the south leg of a wye on the connecting track to the DT&M-AA-DT&I connection. When the line to Petersburg was abandonded in 1929, the east leg of the wye and the track to the terminal was left in place, and operated by the Ann Arbor.

So if I'm reading the map correctly, this spur was a combination of DT&M and T-D track, that would have been conveyed to the AA following the abandonments of both the DT&M and the T-D?
Last edited by redlodger on Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by DaveO »

Good find there redlodger.
Surprised the AARHTS info doesn't show in a google search.

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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by redlodger »

DaveO wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:05 pm
Good find there redlodger.
Surprised the AARHTS info doesn't show in a google search.
Thanks! It was dumb luck I found it. The T-D history was buried in a Google search, and figured I’d check the AARHTS home page and see if anything looked promising.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by ns8401 »

DaveO wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:31 am
I have no problem with the remaining spur having been the DT&M. But the original question was in regard to the area of Tecumseh and Barnum.
That would have been off of the Toledo-Detroit line- DT&I.

Meints Railroad Atlas of Michigan Volume 3 Page 223 (Monroe County-Dundee) will show you what I have stated is correct.
This is also backed up by other reference books.
I won't post the map for copyright reasons-the book is still available.
I haven't been able to find a online map that shows the rail lines in Dundee. The few websites I have found that discuss the DT&I don't go into any detail about Dundee.
Are you trying to say that the DT&I’s line to Toledo branched off the DT&M just west of the Ann Arbor and headed south from there and this was a siding off of it?

Trying to get straight what is an admittedly complicated area. Especially with now 3 lines in a 2 block area.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by DaveO »

Without a detailed track chart, it's hard to say if it actually branched off of the DT&M or there was an entirely separate line of the DT&I through there.
My guess would be the Toledo-Detroit joined the DT&M for a few hundred feet before heading east on the DT&I owned trackage.
The map at the link posted by redlodger matches the map in Meints.

The "siding" was the terminal area of the Toledo-Detroit per the other link posted by redlodger.

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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by AARR »

In a recent Ann Arbor Railroad Technical & Historical Association news letter they printed a detailed map of this area and the various railroads who operated on them and the years they were abandoned. I have the article and map but don't know how to post a picture here :( .
DaveO wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:46 am
Without a detailed track chart, it's hard to say if it actually branched off of the DT&M or there was an entirely separate line of the DT&I through there.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by ns8401 »

DaveO wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:46 am
Without a detailed track chart, it's hard to say if it actually branched off of the DT&M or there was an entirely separate line of the DT&I through there.
My guess would be the Toledo-Detroit joined the DT&M for a few hundred feet before heading east on the DT&I owned trackage.
The map at the link posted by redlodger matches the map in Meints.

The "siding" was the terminal area of the Toledo-Detroit per the other link posted by redlodger.
At some point they had to overlay each other in there before they headed for Britton... so somewhere in this mess has to be a spot they joined up.
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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by DaveO »

AARR wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:35 am
In a recent Ann Arbor Railroad Technical & Historical Association news letter they printed a detailed map of this area and the various railroads who operated on them and the years they were abandoned. I have the article and map but don't know how to post a picture here :( .
DaveO wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:46 am
Without a detailed track chart, it's hard to say if it actually branched off of the DT&M or there was an entirely separate line of the DT&I through there.
Is that the same map as redlodger linked to above or one with more detail?

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Re: Alfalfa mill in Dundee served by Ann Arbor?

Unread post by AARR »

That's the same map, IIRC.
DaveO wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:21 am
AARR wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:35 am
In a recent Ann Arbor Railroad Technical & Historical Association news letter they printed a detailed map of this area and the various railroads who operated on them and the years they were abandoned. I have the article and map but don't know how to post a picture here :( .
DaveO wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:46 am
Without a detailed track chart, it's hard to say if it actually branched off of the DT&M or there was an entirely separate line of the DT&I through there.
Is that the same map as redlodger linked to above or one with more detail?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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