Operational Steam

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Operational Steam

Unread postby AC60CW » Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:35 am

I have been attempting to satisfy a question that popped into my mind after seeing the 765 the other day. I was wondering what the largest coal burning operational steam engine was in the US. I have been able to come up with a number of 2-8-2's in operation. There is also the 2-10-0 at Strasburg, but weight wise it is lighter than mot of the 2-8-2's. I also am not including any foreign built locomotive (not sure if the Chinese 2-10-2 are coal burning anyhow).

Anyone got any input on this for me? Or am I pretty much at the final answer?
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby SD80MAC » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:29 am

I believe you're correct, it's either 765 or PM 1225, which isn't currently operational but will be again soon (I think the PM Berkshires were heavier than the NKPs). All of the operational big 4-8-4s like UP 844 and SP 4449 are oil burners. UPs Challenger 3985 originally burned coal but was converted to oil when it was restored.
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby Saturnalia » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:10 pm

SD80MAC wrote:I believe you're correct, it's either 765 or PM 1225, which isn't currently operational but will be again soon (I think the PM Berkshires were heavier than the NKPs). All of the operational big 4-8-4s like UP 844 and SP 4449 are oil burners. UPs Challenger 3985 originally burned coal but was converted to oil when it was restored.

Here is how the weight breaks down:

PM 1225:
Locomotive Weight: 442,500 lbs (221.5 TONS)
Locomotive & Tender Combined Weight: 727,300 lbs (363.65 TONS)

NKP 765:
Locomotive Weight: 440,800 lbs (220.4 TONS)
Locomotive & Tender Combined Weight: 802,500 lbs (401.25 TONS)

So, PM 1225 weighs more, until you add in the tender.

Sources:
PM 1225: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pere_Marquette_1225
NKP 765: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_Plate_765
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby amtrak1007 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:30 pm

now the fun data, (let's see who knows how to pwn the internets here) is to come up with the clearance information for those same locos... and then for SP 4449, SP&S 700, and the UP boys...
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby Saturnalia » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:52 pm

amtrak1007 wrote:now the fun data, (let's see who knows how to pwn the internets here) is to come up with the clearance information for those same locos... and then for SP 4449, SP&S 700, and the UP boys...

Length, Width?
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby amtrak1007 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:05 pm

MQT3001 wrote:
amtrak1007 wrote:now the fun data, (let's see who knows how to pwn the internets here) is to come up with the clearance information for those same locos... and then for SP 4449, SP&S 700, and the UP boys...

Length, Width?

length width sectional width, clearance to rail, clearance to surrounding structures (if ya'll remember 4449 couldn't do the bridge at CP501? due to a clearance restriction).. that kind of information
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby Saturnalia » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:20 pm

amtrak1007 wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:
amtrak1007 wrote:now the fun data, (let's see who knows how to pwn the internets here) is to come up with the clearance information for those same locos... and then for SP 4449, SP&S 700, and the UP boys...

Length, Width?

length width sectional width, clearance to rail, clearance to surrounding structures (if ya'll remember 4449 couldn't do the bridge at CP501? due to a clearance restriction).. that kind of information

Okay, comming right up!
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby Saturnalia » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:33 pm

Please don't ask why fuel capacity is in 3 different measures....

Builder:
PM 1225- Lima Locomotive Works
NKP 765- Lima Locomotive Works
SP 4449- Lima Locomotive Works
SP&S 700- Baldwin Locomotive Works
UP 4000s- American Locomotive Company

Build Date:
PM 1225- 1941
NKP 765- 1944
SP 4449- 1941
SP&S 700- 1938
UP 4000s- 1941 & 1945

Configuration:
PM 1225- 2-8-4
NKP 765- 2-8-4
SP 4449- 4-8-4
SP&S 700- 4-8-4
UP 4000s- 4-8-8-4

Driver Diameter:
PM 1225- 69 in
NKP 765- 69 in
SP 4449- 80 in
SP&S 700- 77 in
UP 4000s- 68 in

Length:
PM 1225- 101ft, 8in
NKP 765- 100ft, 8 ¾ in
SP 4449- 100ft
SP&S- 109ft, 2 in
UP 4000s- 132ft, 9 ¼ in

Height:
PM 1225- ??? [10 ft wide]
NKP 765- 15ft, 8in [10 ft wide]
SP 4449- 16ft
SP&S 700- ???
UP 4000s- 16ft, 2 ½ in [11 ft wide]

Locomotive Weight:
PM 1225- 442,500 lbs
NKP 765- 440,800 lbs
SP 4449- 475,000 lbs
SP&S 700- 485,500 lbs
UP 4000s- 726,000 lbs
Locomotive & Tender Weight:
PM 1225- 727,300 lbs
NKP 765- 802,500 lbs
SP 4449- 870,000 lbs
SP&S 700- 871,550 lbs
UP 4000s- 1,250,000 lbs

Fuel Capacity:
PM 1225- 44,000 lbs
NKP 765- 44,000 lbs
SP 4449- 6,275 gal
SP&S 700- 8,800 gal
UP 4000s- 30 short tons

Water Capacity:
PM 1225- 22,000 gal
NKP 765- 22,000 gal
SP 4449- 23,300 gal
SP&S 700- 2,000 gal
UP 4000s- 22,000 gal

Boiler Pressure:
PM 1225- 245 psi
NKP 765- 245 psi
SP 4449- 300 psi
SP&S 700- 260 psi
UP 4000s- 300 psi

Cylinder Size:
PM 1225- 26 x 34 in
NKP 765- 26 x 34 in
SP 4449- 25.5 x 32 in
SP&S 700- 28 x 31 in
UP 4000s- 23.75 x 32 in

Tractive Effort:
PM 1225- 69,350 lbf
NKP 765- 64,135 lbf
SP 4449- 64,800 lbf (with the booster firebox truck: 78,000 lbf)
SP&S 700- 96,756 lbf
UP 4000s- 135,375 lbf

Power Output (at cylinders, only could find PM):
PM 1225- 2979 Hp

Also, here is an awesome photo of 1225 by what I can only assume to be Pleasant Street (uploaded by SD80MAC):
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1157267
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby Typhoon » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:47 pm

I guess it is easy to overlook the MILW 261, since it is the middle of a rebuild. However it does burn coal, and is heaver than the Berks.

261 stats

Total Weight in working order- 460,000 lbs
Weight of Tender with fuel- 364,100 Lbs

http://www.261.com/
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby SD80MAC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:47 pm

Nice, but PM 1225 has 70" drivers. All of the PM Berks had their 69" drivers swapped for 70" ones in the year after the C&O merger. Tractive effort dropped about 1,000 lbs.
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Re: Operational Steam

Unread postby SD80MAC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:48 pm

Typhoon wrote:I guess it is easy to overlook the MILW 261, since it is the middle of a rebuild. However it does burn coal, and is heaver than the Berks.

261 stats

Total Weight in working order- 460,000 lbs
Weight of Tender with fuel- 364,100 Lbs

http://www.261.com/

Ah, forgot about 261. Couldn't remember if it burned coal or oil.
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