Shortlines Deleted

Posts that don't fit in the other train categories. Off Subject Chit Chat I tell you. :)
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~Z~
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Shortlines Deleted

Unread post by ~Z~ »

Wow...looks like a lot of good information got taken off the shortlines board. I wonder what was talked about on there. I must have missed something while watching the pistons lose. Any idea what happened guys?
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markvz
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Unread post by markvz »

New member to this board here.

I was actively following the CSX lease/sale messages and I saw nothing innapropriate in those discussions. The only thing I saw on the board that was worthy of deletion was the off topic stuff (basketball, politics) and some dirt being slung between one of the TC guys and a CSX employee over something unrelated to the leasing of the CSX lines. Those could have been easily deleted without clearing the entire board. The board host was very heavy handed in his approach to clearing the boards. Perhaps the leasing/sale of the CSX lines struck a nerve with him?

I have sympathy for the CSX employees who are affected by the lease/sale, but in my opinion that discussion was not out-of-line, as it regarded a very significant railroad transaction in Michigan. Nobody said that they were happy for the CSX employees losing their jobs. There was simply speculation over what would become of the lines.

Personally I'm a big fan of registering users of a bulletin board. I'm glad that this board was established, and I hope it gains popularity. The threads here are much easier to navigate and follow.

Thanks to the webmaster of this board for having us.

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Scooterb
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Unread post by Scooterb »

MarkVZ pretty much nails it CSXEMPLOYEE stired the pot on a thread further down the board. Plus a lot of political stuff. I figured things were going to get cleaned up but not the entire board.
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markvz
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Unread post by markvz »

It wasn't just that the CSX guy flung some dirt. Others fed his behavior by slinging dirt back. When the CSX guy started being rude, he should have been ignored. He took a few people down to his level.

I can understand how the CSX guys must feel about their jobs, but I don't feel that it was any reason to dump the board, if that had anything to do with it. They are taking part in discussions on a railfan message board. We investigate, report, and speculate. It's what we do, take it or leave it.

Now I'd have problems with railfans having a "serves you right for working for a poorly managed company" type attitude, but there was nothing of the sort. It is a very interesting topic that I would love to hear more about.

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Greg Fullmer
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Unread post by Greg Fullmer »

That would be why, see response to GP40s post under my LIRR & Rock pic(someone posted as him), definitely not good.

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markvz
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Unread post by markvz »

Greg,

The offending post must have been removed, as I don't see what you are referring to. I've noticed posts dissapearing here and there, and for good reason. The moderator does delete offending posts, but he must have had enough of it when he dumped the entire board.

The ease of posting under someone else's name over there can be very troublesome. A board in this format is much easier to maintain and moderate when people are actually held accountable for what they post. I can chose to post anonymously over there, leaving no way for others to figure out who I am if I wanted to post obscene material.

Perhaps if the owner of the MR board gets too tired of moderating forums, he could turn that portion of the MR website over to these forums, and wash his hands of the responsibility. Just a possibility I thought about that might make things easier for everyone.

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~Z~
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Unread post by ~Z~ »

Wow...have there ever been some bad postings over on the shortlines board. some i saw, others i saw the remnants of. It is surprising that the board does show your IP address out to anyone. I guess many don't see the problems with this, especially if they are just on dialup. But with a person's IP, many problems can arrise.... people can figure out who you are, like how garry K used a whois function to show where the IP address came from. But he said some people use anonymous proxies to hide who they are. I've seen proxies here at work before, but never anonymous ones. Anyway, hopefully people will see a updated service as being better, but maybe they'll stick to what they know. I have more than enough bandwidth to support that site and users, so everything is set here.
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~Z~
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Unread post by ~Z~ »

Hmm...looks like all of members.boardhost.com is down right now. Dales's and Bob T's. Anyone else having this problem?
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patrick
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Unread post by patrick »

After reading some of the above posts, I will now include this. Though in the past I have not always been on my best behavior, I work with this site and others on the web, including some non train related sites, and have always strived to put forth the best effort I can in a website. Having been added as a moderator/editor to Dave Cenci's new site yesterday, I hope to bring the same list of ideals to that site too. We have more then enough room to move everyone from the 4 boardhost sites to this one no doubt. I have personally thought about asking to buy bob out if he was interested, but I don't feel that its my place to ask suck a thing when he handles the site so well. However, If he ever offers it to someone, I'll buy him out in a heartbeat and move opperations here. No I know that its been talked about in the past and alot of people said they wouldn't move. I say, why not? This site here has much more to offer not to mention a way to keep certain people from posted BS here. we have the AWEsome photo galleries and alot of archived info. if I had my way this would be the only site. JUST MY TWO CENTS. ERR 1 and 1/2....:-p

GreatLakesRailfan
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Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

If it helps, now that I'm not on dial-up for 8 months or so, I finally joined this board. For anyone who's interested, the reason I did so has everything to do with the shortlines board continually getting deleted and/or CSX railroad employees being oversensitive about their job situation. Now the moderator can delete this post if he chooses, but the fact that all of a sudden (ok, its been coming for a while) if you say the wrong thing about a certain company, or if you start speculating about the future of any part of that company, you're running the risk of getting shouted down or worse. I think maybe the people causing the trouble need to wake up and smell the coffee. They are not the only people whose job situation is uncomfortable at best. Many others are in similar situations, most of which are much bleaker. Yet to say otherwise opens oneself up to all kinds of criticism. Yes, I do feel bad for those most affected by the CP Rail deal. But I resent the fact that they feel that coming onto a railfan board (not a railroader board, although their insights and experience is invaluable) and blasting all people (railfans or otherwise) who post something they feel is insensitive or offensive (to them) carries any more weight than the post or action that their words were inspired by. I really respect people like Doc that acknowledge the problem but don't try to incite trouble or shout others down, but after seeing the board deleted for the second time in less than three months or so I decided to come over here. Once again, delete this post if you must, Zack, but I felt that I needed to explain why I joined your site, and also needed the chance to throw in my two or five or twenty cents on the subject.
Charles W.

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~Z~
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Unread post by ~Z~ »

charles,
why on earth would i delete a post about why you wanted to join my site? Sounds perfectly logical to me about the change to check this place out. I'm quite disappointed as well that Bob T suspended the board.. hopefully it's just temporary, and that he didn't delete the board again as he had in the past. I'm tired of seeing tons of useful information get deleted week after week anyway as that board does not archive. I'd like to do more reading up on areas around michigan that i don't head to much (like the thumb area). I would rarely delete posts here, since only registered members can post, and are actually held accountable for their actions. I'm sure everything here will be fine. Welcome to the board.
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RailCanon
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Unread post by RailCanon »

Unfortunately, yes, he deleted the entire board again. :(

It's not just the porn. I think Bob justs needs a break from moderating the board.

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Unread post by sd70accsxt700 »

This is what I have to say about the subject. I am not sure what incident you are refuring to on the Shortlines Board, but as manny of you know I got a little upset one day and made a post that got everybodys attention. Usualy I dont get this angry, but in this instiance, I lost it, and here is why, and I am not trying to start a argument, or flame anybody, just trying to tell it the way I see it.

Here is the example, ( I will use the situation that got me mad, with out names) would say that x place is going to be sold, with no prof, real or specutlative, just that sombody told him it was going to happen, and then when x person that works there, says directley from the railroad itself, that it will not be sold,and then the railroad person also gives prof and reasons why this will not happen. Why then is this not the end of the story. The first person, non railroad person, continsuly keeps brining this up with out any prof, or reasons why, other than he heard it. This as a person who works for the railroad whow knows the facts, or can at least justify the facts, is verry agravating, espacly when the other person, has no insight to the situation other than hearsay.

I guess what I am trying to say is, I understand that everybody is entitled to his oppinion, but if you value our (the railroaders) oppinon, why then when we answer a queston, or post info, why do most (this is my oppinon through what I have seen) people go, I dont believe it/you.
If you dont believe it then why ask. I understand that what we (railroaders) say is not the ultimate say, but what we are told, that we in turn tell you, is what we know, or have seen. I just dont understand why sombody has to got to the lengths that that person did, after being told why or how, on at least 3 ocasions, that they did.

Matt

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Unread post by RailCanon »

It appears that you can post messages again, but it still says that the board is suspended??
EDIT: It appears that a registration system is in effect as of right now. You need a user name and password to post.
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~Z~
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Unread post by ~Z~ »

ah, so now bob T requires usernames and passwords to post messages. Now that advantage of just posting very quickly is out of commission. Hopefully the rest of the board will be updated into a manner that doesn't loose messages after a few days as his current system does.
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GreatLakesRailfan
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Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Is the new format going to be one like this where once you log in, you can post as many messages as you like, or will we have to log in for each separate posting? I guess the other thing that comes to my mind is how easy it still is to get one of those free email addresses. If a person were determined enough, they could easily set up say, five, addresses, pretending to be five separate people, each with a valid board ID, and still carry on half of the baloney that's been happening there. On the other hand I guess it will prevent people from hi-jacking our name/handles on that board. I think its a good thing, but the reason why its needed is bad. My other two cents...

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Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

I wanted to clarify my little rant a few days ago. I was not directing my comments toward the guys, like Matt and Doc, that post what they've heard and what has come down from the top. My problem is with some of the others who were not able to let things go. I do appreciate everything you guys post that you've heard, I know you know far more about the situation than I do, and I appreciate your willingness to share it with the rest of us. Over the last couple years I've gained a lot more insight into large corporations, such as CSX, and the way things are run internally, thanks to your posts. I also know that the problem I had addressed was not solely caused by the railroaders on the board, there are people who hear stuff from someone they consider trustworthy, and some of them can be rather pigheaded when someone contradicts their information, no matter what the source. If it were up to me, I'd lay the blame for much of the bickering at their feet as well. As a note, I did enjoy the bickering to a point. But that's off topic and it wasn't that concerned with the CP Rail deal. If I can get back on the topic I had intended to be on, I was going to add that the postings that set me off were the ones where certain railroaders had nothing nice to say at all. Granted there are an awful lot of stupid people in the world. And there are, unfortunately an awful lot of jerks that happen to share our hobby. But not all of the people involved in our hobby are stupid or jerks. I know there are a lot of decent, kind, respectful people in our hobby. But when a career railroader comes onto the board and places every person involved in our hobby to any extent in the catagory of those that have hassled him at his workplace, refusing to even admit that there may well be many, many more who he has had no contact with (at work) and will have no contact with, that's what kind of inspired the first posting. There were other postings too, over the course of the last several months where an outsider would come in and post something degrading to railfans while either giving the impression that they were railroaders or directly stating such, and my earlier posting was also directed toward them. In short, the post was not as well written as it should have been, but it was inspired by the negative that several more vocal people on the shortlines board held in classifying all railfans as foamers. I offer my apologies to the decent guys that don't slam the rest of us for our hobby just because of what our hobby is. And I appreciate the fact that you are willing to share your experiences and insights with us.
Charles W.

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Unread post by sd70accsxt700 »

No need to apoligize to me. I did not take it personaly, just putting in my two cents worth. I have been watching who says and dose what. I understand there is diffrent kinds of railfans.

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Unread post by RailCanon »

http://members.boardhost.com/misl/
You can post messages again.

EDIT: It looks like Bob T GAVE the board to Dennis Clark!
TAKE A LOOK!

GreatLakesRailfan
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It happened again...

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

I wanted to post something I'd left on the Lower Peninsula board in case Dale starts deleting the threads there (they're starting to take up a fair amount of space, and don't all seem to be positive).

Personally I don't recall having had a message deleted yet, aside from one that I tacked onto a politcal thread back before all the crap happened on the shortline board before. 'Course then again, if this thread gets nixed, it'll be the second time. Total. I'm not that big of a poster/knowledge person, although I try to contribute what I can. And though I do much enjoy and appreciate the hard work and effort that goes into keeping the boards running- money for webspace, and general upkeep and moderating- I figure it's gotta get fairly stressful at times. Like now, for instance. But what really gets my goat is that we can go along for so long with few problems, and then all of a sudden someone comes along and makes a few really jerky comments. Within a day or two the board is closed down again.

Granted, it would just be easier to sit back, take a deep breath and ignore the personal attacks made by those that leave fake names, but I think a lot of us are alike in that all it takes sometimes is a little goading to get us excited and fighting again. Which I'm sure makes for more stress on the moderators as well. And that's something that I usually forget about when I personally reply to some of those posts (my apologies, Dale, Dennis and other moderators on these boards). And we not only lose a valuable source of information, but also all of the threads and posts not yet completed.

I guess one of the things I'd like to say is that while I really appreciate the great resource provided to us here, I also really appreciate the input from the guys who make their living working for the railroads. The posts by Matt, Doc, Jolly John, and all of the others have really provided me with a lot of insight into what their jobs are like, and how at least the bigger companies seem to be run from the perspective of the guys out there doing the real work. But one of the things that really irks me is the guys who work for the railroad that either have it in for what they call 'foamers', or who seem to have a chip on their shoulders against railfans. But its not just those that work for the RRs that get me, it's also the one or two lurkers that like to make comments from time to time to get us riled up. I think these people are the ones that inspire the occasional anti-railroader post that pops up from time to time as well, the same posts that have almost cost the participation of some of the best contributors in the past.

But to sum that up, I'm trying to say that, for the most part, it's not the regulars on the boards that start/cause 99% of the trouble on these boards, it's the 1% or less of those who use these boards, or those (who visit randomly or lurk) with bad intentions that cause the trouble here. And I personally don't see a solution to having an environment free of their nonsense here, other than a log-in for everyone, which would make it a lot more difficult to access these boards, and would probably be an additional cost consideration for Dale as well. Maybe in the future we (as a group) could ignore people whose posts are more meant to cause trouble than to provide any sort of help or positive contribution. Not that that will necessarily bring back people who have already left, but it could be a start toward making the job of the moderators a bit easier.
My 2 cents,
Charles Warczinsky




......As a note to the above, if I get time later I want to edit it so that it really fits this board more than that one. Hope its ok that I posted it here as well.

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