Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

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Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby Michael » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:53 pm

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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby Saturnalia » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:21 pm

Their taxes and regulations haven't ground the economy down to be slow enough. One thing I've learned in 18 years on God's Green Earth: chances a proposed Congressional solution actually solves the problem: cos(PI/2)

And they won't be able to figure that out, because most have no practical life knowledge.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby CSX_CO » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:49 pm

With a full 18 years on earth you're full of that practical life knowledge?

With the baggage allowed on the trains I'm surprised they don't at least screen the bags. Maybe not the full Monty on the passengers, but at least x-Ray the bags. AMTRAK goes thru some large population centers, and thru some very important infrastructure. A medium sized explosive goes off under Grand Central in New York, or the tunnels coming into it, and that would really mess things up. Ditto for other key locations on the rail network.

World is getting crazy, so if screening AMTRAK passengers keeps something really bad from happening then it's probably worth an additional few minutes of my time prior to boarding.

Plus, all the nut jobs on buses, probably best to make sure they don't have weapons. Been a couple people killed on Greyhounds in the last decade by unbalanced passengers with weapons.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby Ypsi » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:10 pm

At first my thought was "not enough people ride the train" but then if you think more about it, the use for disrupting a train in some way would be to target and block very busy lines of communication. Messing with a train in Pontiac with 22 people on it does no good, but a train with 300+ on it in the NEC is a big deal, plus if you disturb one train on that corridor in the correct (or rather incorrect?) way you could end up with thousands additional people stuck in a soft spot like Penn station or grand central, that's when your real damage will start.

Will the government fund this? Probably not. Should they at least scan bags, I can agree with that. Anything can be put in a suitcase that isn't checked, and anything can happen. I would bet if something like this is added to Amtrak it starts in the NEC, and then moves to the two other main corridors of LA and CHI.

Side note on busses, some of the Amtrak station agents have mentioned that people are surprised the train is cheaper than a bus. Apparently they want to keep that information away from the people riding busses :lol:
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby Saturnalia » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:39 pm

Terrorists will target the tracks long before the trains. Much greater potential for damage without discovery there than trying to set off a low-level explosive in a closed environment where it'll do minimal damage. Bombs in train don't take down tunnels. Bombs on tracks that derail hazmat would do much more damage.

Thus, TSA isn't worth it on the spread out rail network.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby hoborich » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:53 pm

Absolutely! Locks can be broken off switches. Track can be compromised in the middle of nowhere, with no witnesses. Just more terror theatre for the masses.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby Ypsi » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:13 am

Right but TSA would only prevent on train incidents/ attempt to prevent them. Unless we bring back watchmen and have them babysit every inch of rail.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby CSX_CO » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:58 am

From what I've seen the big key points of infrastructure are monitored by highly sophisticated and sensitive monitoring systems. 7 yrs ago these systems could detect something as small as a loaf of of bread "out of place". I can only imagine they've only become more sensitive. So, with that said, unless they drive up and blow the bomb immediately, the system will "see" it. The system alerts a human to the intrusion, and they determine if it is a legitimate threat. They can issue audible warnings, or dispatch law enforcement.

So, why wouldn't they use the train to deliver the device exactly where they need it? Pack a lot of C4 into a big roll on suitcase. Have a couple of them in a baggage car rigged to the same detonator and you could do some real damage. May not bring a tunnel or bridge down, but do enough damage to shut down a line for a few days.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby Saturnalia » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:07 am

One needs only to shift the Rail slightly out of alignment, as was the case accidentally in Kansas earlier this year, to derail a train. Of course, there's also the case of whoever derailed that Amtrak train years ago by manipulating the track while being sure to keep the track circuit alive. NEVER CAUGHT.

What worries me the most, though, are kahamakazi ramming attacks. Get a few jihadis to replicate the Nevada truck v Amtrak disaster and there you go.

Thus to me, adding TSA to Amtrak does next to nothing to reduce the risks.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby SousaKerry » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:20 am

Typical congressional knee jerk reaction. It'll never happen here though, half the rural Atrash stations are unmanned most of the day especially during night time hours. When the three rivers was running through Fostoria the station was unlocked by a local cab company 2 hours before train time and locked up once the train was scheduled to depart. How do you run security where you don't even have a station agent. I remember one incident when a West bound Three Rivers lost HEP and heat in January they were already late and the station had closed. At the time F tower was still open and the operator took pitty and let passengers come in warm up use the bathroom and phone, while buses were called in from god knows where to take the passengers to Chicago.

If you wanted a high body count take out a bridge on a tourist line, no signal system, poorly maintained track and old equipment. Trains are packed and no security whatsoever other then the Car Hosts and Conductors. Most passengers are already packing large bags and strollers, Crap what am I saying..
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby CSX_CO » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:28 am

You seem to think ISIS and Al Queda are about the body count. It's about the fear and shock value, body count is secondary. That's why they douse people in gas, and set them on fire, drown them in a age, or load them up in a car and hit it with and RPG with the cameras rolling.

The masses aren't that shocked if you derail a train in Kansas. Set off an explosive in the tunnels under the Hudson, and now you have the people's attention.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby hoborich » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:47 pm

Of course, there's also the case of whoever derailed that Amtrak train years ago by manipulating the track while being sure to keep the track circuit alive. NEVER CAUGHT.


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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby hoborich » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:48 pm

The quickest way to end terrorism is to stop bombing other peoples countries! :twisted:
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby Michael » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:06 am

I do think this is an oversimplification of terrorism. Every Christian man woman and child that did not leave the city of Tel Keppe in northern Iraq where my family is from was barbarically slaughtered in the most evil of ways. I would hardly call ISIS freedom fighters.

hoborich wrote:The quickest way to end terrorism is to stop bombing other peoples countries! :twisted:
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby AARR » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:14 am

ISIS has a mission to either convert or conquer every nation of the world. As President Obama found out the hard way ignoring them (stop bombing) only invigorates their efforts to expand their agenda of joining them or be subject to their terrorism.

Michael wrote:I do think this is an oversimplification of terrorism. Every Christian man woman and child that did not leave the city of Tel Keppe in northern Iraq where my family is from was barbarically slaughtered in the most evil of ways. I would hardly call ISIS freedom fighters.

hoborich wrote:The quickest way to end terrorism is to stop bombing other peoples countries! :twisted:
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby hoborich » Wed Sep 28, 2016 7:33 pm

ISIS was created by the US, to keep the billions flowing to the defense industry, when the american people tired of the nightly Al Qaida updates, and Obama staged that killing of Osama Bin Ladin when he needed a boost in his job performance ratings.
The US always needs an enemy! None of the countries we have attacked have done us any harm! Not Korea, or Vietnam, or Granada, or Panama, or Bosnia, or Iraq, or Aghanistan, or Yemen, or Syria, or Libya. It's also interesting that the mostest, evilest, terror group ever to walk the earth, hasn't attacked israel, the common enemy of all the arab countries.
It's also interesting that those airport scanners were sitting in a warehouse, prior to 9/11, just needing an excuse to be implemented. The Patriot Act was also written and ready to go with no discussion and unanimous approval from Congress, none of whom even bothered to read it!
The terrorist don't hate us for our freedom. We lost that a long time ago at the hands of our own government. They just want us out of their countries, and out of their business, and to stop overthrowing their leaders and governments!
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby TSB » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:11 am

With "problems" like air and water pollution, hunger, the ozone layer.... all caused by the one real problem, overpopulation, the TSA
should be dissolved. Live ammo should be issued to border guards and ADC and child deductions should be eliminated. China did it right 50 years
ago and went from an economic weakling to #2.

If we went back to a 3 billion population as it was in the 50s, all of the pollution problems would be eliminated, the forests would regain their
areas and people would stay in their own countries and be well fed. Carbon tax my a$$.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby AARR » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:34 pm

I normally agree with you, Mr. TSB, but on this one we differ. Since the 1970's I've been closely documenting and following the dire predictions of the over-population groups and they have yet to get it right.

Across the world people are living longer and healthier lives. If air pollution or the ozone layer was the threat you feel it is we would be living shorter unhealthier lives. Look at yourself for example, 50 years ago it is highly unlikely you'd be alive much less living a relatively full and active life. And you are not abnormal by any means. 60 is the new 40, 80 the new 60, etc. This is becoming the norm across most (but of course not all) cultures.

The ability to grow food has outpaced the growth of the population (do you recall the prediction in the 1970's was if the population increased by a billion there would be mass starvation by 1980, then 1990, then 2000...it didn't happen). In fact obesity is now becoming as much a problem as hunger. Periodically I go with my wife to a soup kitchen and feed the hungry in west Detroit. We'll usually get around 175-200 people. The vast majority of these people have far higher BMI's than me yet in America they are considered hungry. The primary problem is incompetent or tyrannical governments that prevent resources (food, medicine, other) from getting to their citizens (like North Korea, Iraq, Ethiopia, etc.).

There are many creditable climatologists and scientists (31000 signed the OSIM) who disagree with the theories about man-made climate change and feel what is happening is the natural course of the earth changing as it has been since it's creation. In fact when people are presented both sides of the debate more people feel that climate change has less to do with human activity and more to do with the natural evolution of the earth. It is not necessary to reduce population or stop using "clean" (including clean burning coal) fossil fuels to adapt to the changes.

Climate change has not murdered anyone and it's highly unlikely it will. In fact countries (like England for example) that are going green and incurring higher energy costs as a result are seeing increased deaths from the elderly who cannot afford higher cost heat and die from exposure in their own homes. Terrorists on the other hand have murdered thousands and performed many other crimes on innocent people and will continue to do so and escalate it if we aren't successful in stopping them.

So this is one area you and I might have to disagree.

TSB wrote:With "problems" like air and water pollution, hunger, the ozone layer.... all caused by the one real problem, overpopulation, the TSA
should be dissolved. Live ammo should be issued to border guards and ADC and child deductions should be eliminated. China did it right 50 years
ago and went from an economic weakling to #2.

If we went back to a 3 billion population as it was in the 50s, all of the pollution problems would be eliminated, the forests would regain their
areas and people would stay in their own countries and be well fed. Carbon tax my a$$.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby Michael » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:18 pm

TSB wrote:China did it right 50 years
ago and went from an economic weakling to #2.


What part did China get right? The communism? The 1 child policy? The forced abortions? Forced sterilization? outright infanticide? The slavery? The Tiananmen Square massacre?
China is probably the biggest polluter on the planet. Efficiency is the enemy of liberty.
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Re: Congress wants TSA for AMTRAK

Unread postby ~Z~ » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:47 pm

TSA screening bags on Amtrak turning into man made climate being a farce...

Lolz, this thread sucks; locking, thank you, drive thru.

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