St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Saturnalia » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:44 pm

...and Bill says:

Bill Steffen wrote:The Great Lakes continue to gain water. This is one of the biggest spring increases in the volume of water in the Great Lakes since records began over 100 years ago. Lake Michigan/Huron (at the same water level – connected at the Strait of Mackinac) rose another 2″ in the last two weeks. The level is up 5″ in the last month and is now only one inch below the level of one year ago (we’ll bounce into the plus column here soon). The level is now 12″ above the lowest June level of 1964, but still 19″ below the long-term average. Lake Superior added one inch in the last two weeks. Superior has gained 4″ in the last month and is at the same level as one year ago. It’s 7″ below the century average. Lake Erie is up 3″ in just the last 2 weeks, and 7″ in the last month. Erie is now 2″ above the level of one year ago and only 3″ below the long-term average. Lake Ontario did even better, up 6″ in just the last 2 weeks and 11″ in the last month. Lake Ontario is now 10″ above the level of one year ago and 4″ ABOVE the long-term average. South Lake Michigan (south of Manistee) water temperatures are between 55 and 60.

http://blogs.woodtv.com/author/billsteffen/

Wonders, we have years of drought and years of excess rain! And they cancel each other out! Who knew!?!?!? :idea:
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Jochs » Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:26 pm

This year, the SW is experiencing drought. States like New Mexico and Arizona are drier than normal, and it is expected to be a bad year for wildfires.

I remember in the mid 1980's, there were high lake levels, and a high water table. We used to go to Ludington State Park and many areas in the park were underwater because of the high water table, I think in Cedar Campground.
Then in 1988 there was the drought, and the water table dropped considerably.
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby J T » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:31 pm

Jochs wrote:
I remember in the mid 1980's...


Wow, you are old! :lol: :wink:
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Jetlink » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:45 pm

J T wrote:
Jochs wrote:
I remember in the mid 1980's...


Wow, you are old! :lol: :wink:


Yeah, You guys are old :mrgreen:
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Jochs » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:11 pm

J T wrote:
Jochs wrote:
I remember in the mid 1980's...


Wow, you are old! :lol: :wink:



I may be old, but not as old as you gramps :mrgreen:
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby J T » Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:27 pm

Hey! I resemble that comment.
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby rsinoms » Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:09 am

After reading the whole back and forth on this thread... I have one primary question, and since MQT3001 knows all, lets hear what he has to say about this... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Which way does the water primarily drain from the great lakes???
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Saturnalia » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:47 pm

rsinoms wrote:After reading the whole back and forth on this thread... I have one primary question, and since MQT3001 knows all, lets hear what he has to say about this... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Which way does the water primarily drain from the great lakes???

There are 3 major outlets: St. Lawrence Seaway, Chicago-area Canals, and Evaporation.
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby CSX_CO » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:41 pm

MQT3001 wrote:
rsinoms wrote:After reading the whole back and forth on this thread... I have one primary question, and since MQT3001 knows all, lets hear what he has to say about this... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Which way does the water primarily drain from the great lakes???

There are 3 major outlets: St. Lawrence Seaway, Chicago-area Canals, and Evaporation.


PRIMARILY drains to the St. Lawrence. The "Chicago Sanitary Canal" flow is supplanted by pumps from Lake Michigan and is not a 'natural' out flow of water. Before the 'reversal' the Chicago and Calumet Rivers drained into Lake Michigan. From what I've read, studies show that while the surface water of the Chicago River drains away from the lake as intended/designed, the water near the river bed still flows towards Lake Michigan.

Wiki says "3,200 cubic feet (91 m3) per second", over a 40 year average, flow from the Great Lakes 'west' out of the basin. By comparison, the St Lawrence River puts out 590,000 cu ft/s per Wiki. So, primarily drains east towards the Atlantic.

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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby rsinoms » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:56 pm

CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:
rsinoms wrote:After reading the whole back and forth on this thread... I have one primary question, and since MQT3001 knows all, lets hear what he has to say about this... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Which way does the water primarily drain from the great lakes???

There are 3 major outlets: St. Lawrence Seaway, Chicago-area Canals, and Evaporation.


PRIMARILY drains to the St. Lawrence. The "Chicago Sanitary Canal" flow is supplanted by pumps from Lake Michigan and is not a 'natural' out flow of water. Before the 'reversal' the Chicago and Calumet Rivers drained into Lake Michigan. From what I've read, studies show that while the surface water of the Chicago River drains away from the lake as intended/designed, the water near the river bed still flows towards Lake Michigan.

Wiki says "3,200 cubic feet (91 m3) per second", over a 40 year average, flow from the Great Lakes 'west' out of the basin. By comparison, the St Lawrence River puts out 590,000 cu ft/s per Wiki. So, primarily drains east towards the Atlantic.

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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Saturnalia » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:15 pm

Of course I know the St. Lawrence is the primary, I just wanted to be a smart alec :twisted:
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby CSX_CO » Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:48 pm

MQT3001 wrote:Of course I know the St. Lawrence is the primary, I just wanted to be a smart alec :twisted:


So why not just answer the question with the primary? Maybe that 'smart alex' attitude is what turns people here off towards you...

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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Saturnalia » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:07 pm

Jochs wrote:This year, the SW is experiencing drought. States like New Mexico and Arizona are drier than normal, and it is expected to be a bad year for wildfires.

I remember in the mid 1980's, there were high lake levels, and a high water table. We used to go to Ludington State Park and many areas in the park were underwater because of the high water table, I think in Cedar Campground.
Then in 1988 there was the drought, and the water table dropped considerably.

http://tablet.woodtv.com/blog/142/59656

How's this: we are closer to the long-term average than the record low. 15 inches in a year...amazing.
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Jochs » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:12 pm

Water levels have gone considerably higher in recent months. Last month Lakes Huron and Michigan went up 4 inches, and 15 inches in the past year.
http://blogs.woodtv.com/2014/07/17/grea ... levels-68/

It makes a difference when there's lots of precipation, and low evaporation during the winter due to the extensive ice cover.
During the string of mild winters we had, the lakes didn't have as much ice on them, and the water was allowed to evaporate.
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Jochs » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:53 pm

So about 6 or 7 years ago, everyone was concerned about the low water levels in the Great Lakes. Now, it's just the opposite.
I just read Lakes Ontario and Huron are at their highest recorded levels.
Lake Michigan is pretty high as well.
The piers in St. Joseph were underwater recently, though they are now not completely submerged. South Haven has also been experiencing flooded piers due to the high water levels of Lake Michigan. I will have to go down to one of the beaches in St. Joseph to check this out soon.
Supposedly, a seiche occurred on Lake Michigan, which caused high water levels in West Michigan. A seiche is when the wind pushes all the water to one side, and it eventually moves back and forth a couple of times, like if you tip a bucket of water, and the water sloshes back and forth.
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Saturnalia » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:50 pm

Saturnalia wrote:Everyone was freaking out in the 60s too about the low water. So it cycled thru again? BIG DEAL!!

In several years we'll be scared of the lake flooding downtown Grand Haven.

Just wanna take a bit of a victory lap here and despite the following, on 8 Feb 2013 at 15:51 ET, I correctly predicted what we're seeing now, caught flak for it, and it happened. Because it's a very predictable weather-based cycle. I bet by 2025-2030 they'll be scared it's all going down again. Because cycles.

Bottom line: if you're building anything in/around the Great Lakes, expect ~3-4 feet of fluctuation in each lake's level.

It fits a trig function pretty nicely. Lake Michigan annual levels, charted from 1900-2000, matches nicely to a 30-35-year cycle.
IA7 Points and Trig B.png


Y@ wrote:
MQT3001 wrote:Everyone was freaking out in the 80s too about the low water. So it cycled thru again? BIG DEAL!

You clearly know a lot less about this than you think you do.

Check. Mate. :twisted:
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby J T » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:12 am

Jochs wrote:Supposedly, a seiche occurred on Lake Michigan, which caused high water levels in West Michigan. A seiche is when the wind pushes all the water to one side, and it eventually moves back and forth a couple of times, like if you tip a bucket of water, and the water sloshes back and forth.

I experienced that first hand back in the 80s when I was riding my ATV down the beach north of Saugatuck. Earlier in the day my friends and I were heading to some dunes and, while riding down the beach, we passed by a tree that had fallen. There was a good 20 feet of beach between the water line and the tree, so we didn't really think much about it. On our way back down the beach a few hours later, we had to ride through 2-3 feet of water to get around that tree. Crazy to see the water level rise that quickly in just a matter of hours.
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby TSB » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:40 am

A seiche also can occur from a earthquake or other significant land movement. A tsunami is a seiche that does not osccilate.

As to water flow, there is also a rather large northern water flow underground from the lakes to Hudson Bay.
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Re: St. Joseph Lighthouse & Water Levels

Unread postby Jochs » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:58 pm

I saw this thread and it reminded me of how low the lake was when this thread was started.

They started doing tours of the St. Joe Lighthouse a few years ago during the summer, and many of this past summer's tours were cancelled due to the high lake water level.
And the 1980's are repeating with beach and bluff erosion.
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