Conduct issues

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Conduct issues

Unread postby ~Z~ » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:38 pm

What's been happening a bit too often lately is some backhanded comments towards some members on here. It isn't exactly trolling or slandering as outlined as guidelines in the FAQ, but more of a general disrespect towards some members. For instance, there was a thread recently about a MP 25 Productions photoshoot that had to be cleaned up. Some thought there was an overall negative agenda directed at TrainWatcher and his crew, while others thought the posts were just general commentary, giving their opinion on the event, but not necessarily giving positive mentions of the event.

We've seen a lot of people that seem to pick on TrainWatcher, while others help with good advice without poking fun at him on one of his many questions. There's other members, like MQT3001, that some just seem to really jab into him for whatever he posts on his mass amounts of posts, while others just ignore it. Had quite the discussion with sd70accsxt700, asked him what should be done about it as he was the one that really bought this issue forward. When MQT3001 was mentioned, a thought was just to ban the user. But I mentioned that if that was the method, shouldn't TrainWatcher be tossed as well? I'm not in favor of either of these two options, so we've got to come up with some other way. I don't very well want to ban everyone who has negative comments towards threads, as that makes no sense. I've highly disliked having to permaban the few members here that have been outed. It's usually been after many offenses, and the member just has irreconcilable differences with the policies of the site... and what seems to happen often is the user hates the admin as he's the one that had to do it. I've been frustrated with those who are not able to differentiate between a friendship and the website that I run...guess that's just the spot the admin gets put in. Anyway, back on topic...

One option could be to temporarily ban either the people that are just drawing a lot of heat to themselves and/or to the people making the negative comments. I might even be able to set a frequent offender user's permission to make a moderator have to approve their posts before they are posted. I've already taken the action of turning off chatbox privileges from some due to excessive swearing or spamming issues. Heard another option from another guy that no moderating should take place and just let you all rule over yourselves.

What I'm looking for is some input on how we should take care of the guys who seem to get picked on, as I definitely don't want people to think this is a fine place to bully. On the other hand, the vast majority of the time, it's just us goofing around making funny/humorous posts towards each other. I love the sense of community that we normally display, and am trying hard not to hinder people's ability to speak. How can we balance this better than it is, or is that just an unreasonable goal? Amazes me sometimes that so many people from different backgrounds get along as well as we do, so it may be hard to further improve. Let me know what you think.

tl;dr(too long; didn't read): things get out of hand sometimes, what do you think we should do about it?
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby Ypsi » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:08 pm

Read the whole thing and I like some of the ideas. I do think that if all some one is going to do is say what a waste of time or money that they THINK somehing is going to be, like some said about the MP25 event, of course they should not do it. Even though it is your opinion it is not necessarily what you need to say. TrainWatcher has probably put a lot of work into this event and I'm sure it would be really nice, but if you are just going to trash it you probably shouldn't. It seems Some members were able to say what they thought about the event weather positive or nefative, in a considerate way....

I basically think it should all come down to this is supposed to be an online community, and Zack isn't here to babysit. What I think is that you should be able to respond to something in a polite (or at least not insulting) way, even if you do not agree with it.

As for a solution I like the banning from the chat box for a few days or even being banned from the site for some time. But I still think we all should be well beyond haveing Issues interacting online to the point where something has to be done.
Last edited by Ypsi on Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby Y@ » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:09 pm

No moderation.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby SD80MAC » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:23 pm

Getting rid of moderation would not be a good idea. There are several here both currently and in the past who've demonstrated that they do not know how to conduct themselves on a public forum without a bit of policing, if you will.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby MagnumForce » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:36 pm

I was the one who jokingly said no moderation. You should see the type of flame wars those places without it become.

Honestly I don't think people have any concept of differentiating between the real world and the internet. Sarcasm, inside jokes and what not that would be easily understood on the outside world somehow lose all meaning on the internet.

The sense of community here is great and to have an iron fist like some places do ruins that completely.

I say keep it as is in my personal opinion.

Matt flipped out about treatment of James yet has no problem treating MQT the same way, I find the irony comical.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby TrainWatcher » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:54 pm

I have been on this site roughly 6 years, and while I have had some issues with certain members I have resolved them. While a few other have been absolved.

Moderation is nice, but there should not have to be an appointed babysitter (Z, CNW, or MDH). As the saying goes if you don't have something nice to say then don't say it at all. That really applies here. I have restrained on commenting on many peoples posts because the content I was about to post was rude and/or disrespectiful.

The mentions on my thread came from sources (members) that had no knowledge of Milepost 25 Productions operations, or anyone else involved with the projects. The event(s) that Milepost 25 Productions presents are for everyone. If you do not like the selection that we provide, do not come. However, I do not respect slander of our company, team, or affiliates because you do not like the selection, or our pricing. This goes for several members on this forum and they know who they are. I do not endorse that.

While this forum is a great place of information it has gotten to be a childish banter on occasion and we are all adults here. If you cannot respect your fellow posters and railfans, don't comment and leave it.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby CharlieX90 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:00 pm

Some people on here can't handle sarcasm as Brent said. Also,i think the whole MP25 thread was a joke because as Brent said,Matt will jump all over someone who is talking bad about James or MP25 (Something he never used to do,oh what a surprise) yet when CSX_CO attacks MQT3001 at every chance he gets,no one really does anything. I've never met the kid and he seems to post reliable heads up (Most of the time). You want my opinion.Start ruling with an iron fist. Give one warning and if they do it,ban them. I'm banned from the chat and i could care less. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby Saturnalia » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:12 pm

I'm just going to say that I have never tried to be wrong or rude. I try to restrain from doing things, such as statements that could be seen as political, although I must admit I have let some slip through. I have been trying to police myself, and I now find myself not posting stuff because I realize it's a bad idea, for whatever reason that may be.

As for the chatbox, its my fault. I went too far. I regret it, and do feel somewhat imbarrassed. Zack was right to ban me. I hope to one day regain access, whenever that day may be.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby Y@ » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:23 pm

And FWIW, there are some people on here who seem to get some "special treatment." Honestly, IDGAF about it. This site is really only good for two things: Humor and occasional informative posts. Most of the time, it's just people asking for stuff. But it's not even close to how bad TO and a couple Yahoo groups have gotten since NS released the Heritage Units. (OMG WHERE IS THE PC HERITAGE UNIT? ... or... OMG WHEN CAN I CATCH THE 8103 TRAILING ON THIS TRAIN?)

Oh yeah, and my "No moderation." post was a joke. But I'm sure everyone thought I was serious. Most of you take me too seriously anyway.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby MagnumForce » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:29 pm

Trying to figure out where James or MP25 was slandered. Slander is outright lies, nowhere have I seen outright lies about you or MP25 productions. This whole thing is just silly, absolute idiocy and everyone needs to calm down and just let it go for what it is, opinions, trying to look out for others and good natured banter and ribbing.

We are allowed opinions, I don't buy the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" garbage. We should not have to like everyone and we should not have to keep our mouths shut and sit on our hands.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby Y@ » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:35 pm

MagnumForce wrote:Trying to figure out where James or MP25 was slandered. Slander is outright lies, nowhere have I seen outright lies about you or MP25 productions. This whole thing is just silly, absolute idiocy and everyone needs to calm down and just let it go for what it is, opinions, trying to look out for others and good natured banter and ribbing.

We are allowed opinions, I don't buy the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" garbage. We should not have to like everyone and we should not have to keep our mouths shut and sit on our hands.


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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby Jetlink » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:10 am

I have seen much worse behavior on other boards/forums I belong to. Things are really not so bad here. I don't think much change is necessary.

As long as human beings are involved, there will be miss-steps. Moderators may have to clean things up now and again. Some people will heed warnings and sound advice and others will not. Some users will rub others the wrong way and often it may not even be intentional.

There is a unique mix of life experience among the users here. We should use it to our benefit. That's why I'm here. I want to learn about the railroad that I have lived two miles away from my entire life. The users here have helped me do that by sharing their knowledge and experience. I think that is why most of us are here. To learn from others and share what we can. A new user shouldn't be intimidated or bullied by an experienced user. Rather they should be mentored by those who have knowledge and experience. Like wise a newer user should have a level of humility and respect for those who are willing to invest in them their time and knowledge.

It takes a level of maturity to keep you mouth shut or in this case your fingers off the keyboard at certain critical times. I see some of the members here at all levels of life experience struggle with that. An administrative policy is not likely to change anyone's behavior in that area. Discipline doesn't not usually resolve an issue it usually only moves the problem to another arena or makes it another's problem. In some cases it is necessary though.

I do notice several of the members getting picked on/at constantly. I'm not sure how you can effectively deal with that as an administrator. The rest of us though could set an example by offering appropriate responses when another seems to be on the short end of the stick. Two parties bickering back and forth incessantly never solves anything. At the point it is emotional not logical. Lock-a-rooney.

To summarize I think it is beneficial to keep moderation. You're doing a good job as the admin, keep up the good work. There are users here from diverse back grounds and places in life. Some of us may have to tolerate or ignore others of us sometimes but that is true in life as well. Here is really no different. In extreme cases a restriction of privileges or a ban, either permanent or temporary, may be appropriate. I'm OK with that. I don't think things are too bad yet.
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby Big Frank » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:14 am

It boils down to this we just all need to respect each others opinions and comments and be mindful of each other. Because and im speaking for my self here you may think your tough behind your keyboard but if you say something to insult me or to be hurtful to me or my feeling i wont let that go and i will run into you sooner or later and im the type of guy that will knock you out. one of those best friend or worst enemy issues and I think thats one thing that is trying to be avoided here because we all like to get together and have fun at meets and bull shat around besides this is a train forum is there seriously a reason to take it that seriously geez o petes
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby Big Frank » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:20 am

MagnumForce wrote:Trying to figure out where James or MP25 was slandered. Slander is outright lies, nowhere have I seen outright lies about you or MP25 productions. This whole thing is just silly, absolute idiocy and everyone needs to calm down and just let it go for what it is, opinions, trying to look out for others and good natured banter and ribbing.

We are allowed opinions, I don't buy the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" garbage. We should not have to like everyone and we should not have to keep our mouths shut and sit on our hands.


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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby CharlieX90 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:32 am

Lets just have a big wrestling match in a ring at Deshler and get all this anger out of your systems! :D
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby tsinoms » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:20 am

I agree whole heartedly that some joking has been misinterpreted in the pass and it has caused bannings to people that usually don't pick fights at all. My solution to this is stop and think about what you are saying when you post. Read it in a monotone voice or something. If it doesn't sound like it would be a joke don't post it. Trust me... having an illness that makes sentence structure difficult to understand makes you realize how saying what sounds right in your head may come off as offensive or agressive to others. Again... just think before ya post and all will be well. :)

As for the swearing, I've been to a point where you just need to let go and swear like there is no tomorrow but people forget we are not all in our 20's and 30's. I'm 19. I joined at the age of 13 and was not really one to swear a lot. Just think if you had a 13 year old child. Would you want them to be swearing like some people on here have?

One last thing I have to say is directed toward James. I know stuff has been tough around here and people may not fully believe in ya, but I think you can find some success in this. I am not saying as a full time thing but an every now and then project until you find what works with the photo shoots and video. You are a good guy and very determined but I can't see it. Don't let that stop ya though. Keep pushin and who knows... I might show up to one in the future.

All and all, I'm sorry for any trouble I may have caused in the past and let's remember why we are here. Trains! :D
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby PAT.C » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:00 am

I HATE EVERYBODY :twisted: :twisted: !!!


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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby AARR » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:09 am

CharlieX90 wrote:Lets just have a big wrestling match in a ring at Deshler and get all this anger out of your systems! :D

Some of you need to be taught some manners. I'll bring my boxing gloves to the next meet :wink: :lol:

Seriously, I don't want anyone banned cause there's a lot of good info, pics, vids, laughs, etc. but I don't like the piling on. If someone doesn't like something maybe say something once then move on. :)
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby AARR » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:10 am

PAT.C wrote:I HATE EVERYBODY :twisted: :twisted: !!!

I LUV BEER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: :lol:

You are immature but I still likes you :lol:
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Re: Conduct issues

Unread postby trnwatcher » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:08 pm

3 strikes and you are out1st offense 3 day ban, 2nd offense, 7 day ban, 3rd offense=boot (6 month minimum re-instated by Z or jr. admin only)
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