L304/305 & JAIL

[pudgy]

Here's a diagram of the current track layout at Ensel.

[chapmaja]

Was told the Lansing transload is for car's that have been taking a week or 2 to get in Ithaca. ZFS is expanding currently with 2 new storage bins hopefully operational by fall,with 2 more in the spring. Plus plan's to add a soy oil food grade refining facility within the next 5 years. ZFS owners are owners in the A&B group also.

Would the owners of ADBF / JAIL attempt to purchase the GLC line? I think it would be a huge investment, and I don't think the current owners of the GLC are willing to sell, but it would make sense because ZFS does appear to be the biggest shipper on the GLC at this point.

[GP30M4216]

Thanks to Pudgy for the track layout and track numbers at Ensel, that’s really helpful!

I stopped by the end of Spikes Street near Heart Truss today after work to share some photos from the mid point of the yard which may also provide some perspective.

This view looks east. Heart Truss’s spur diverges to the right from the JAIL’s Lansing belt line. They had a centerbeam on the spur. This is a csx customer, as we discussed.

This view looks west. JAIL-CSX interchange cars (CSXT coil and bulkhead flat with what looks like steel plate) are in the typical interchange spot on track L07, which is worked by JAIL on the west end from the Connection track which is visible in the shade to the left.

This one-time Klemme Co-Op Grain car of Iowa was parked right across the the end of Spikes, and worth a photo.

[LansingRailFan]

Was told the Lansing transload is for car's that have been taking a week or 2 to get in Ithaca. ZFS is expanding currently with 2 new storage bins hopefully operational by fall,with 2 more in the spring. Plus plan's to add a soy oil food grade refining facility within the next 5 years. ZFS owners are owners in the A&B group also.

It’s specific lanes of traffic, all outbound on NS.

All ZFS cars take forever because all cars on GLC take forever to get to and from the customers.

And yes, ZFS would love to buy GLC. So would Watco…and G&W…and LSRC…and anyone else but a class one.

[Buster Manning]

wonder how many owners there have been since this Klemme car was on the Hillsdale County Railroad back in the mid-80s'

[LansingRailFan]

Is there any resource online that has a catalog of grain cars such as this that were all owned by and painted for co-op’s and such?

[railroader and son]

I have heard ZFS has offered,GLC owners say nope lol.

[MiddleMI]

We were talking about this earlier, but here are the boundaries of the CSX owned-property that apparently used to serve the business(es) on Spikes Street:

Pudgy, are you saying that the northern-most JAIL track would have been L09? And then you can see where L08 was pulled if you look closely. I do not see any existence of L08 at the east end of the yard - or anywhere - at all.

[Tim]

At one time the track to Heart Truss was a spur off the track that ran along the side of Spike St and crossing Grand River Ave to serve multiple tracks in the Michigan Sugar Co from 1901 to 1929. The Heart spur also served the John Deere place on Grand River into at least the late '60s. The building is now occupied by Advanced Communications & Data.

[pudgy]

We were talking about this earlier, but here are the boundaries of the CSX owned-property that apparently used to serve the business(es) on Spikes Street:

Spikes.png

Pudgy, are you saying that the northern-most JAIL track would have been L09? And then you can see where L08 was pulled if you look closely. I do not see any existence of L08 at the east end of the yard - or anywhere - at all.

Don't know if there was ever an L08 or L09. The way the tracks line up now, it looks like the Jail main was always the furthest south track, and there was a couple tracks that tied into their main towards the east end near Turner St, where they still have at least one track still connected, possibly both. I believe one still ties into their main by Heart Truss, but the other switch was removed, making the other a stub track. Last year they had a string of sand hoppers stored long enough that they had to chainsaw a few "trees" to get them back out.

[MiddleMI]

We were talking about this earlier, but here are the boundaries of the CSX owned-property that apparently used to serve the business(es) on Spikes Street:

Spikes.png

Pudgy, are you saying that the northern-most JAIL track would have been L09? And then you can see where L08 was pulled if you look closely. I do not see any existence of L08 at the east end of the yard - or anywhere - at all.

Don't know if there was ever an L08 or L09. The way the tracks line up now, it looks like the Jail main was always the furthest south track, and there was a couple tracks that tied into their main towards the east end near Turner St, where they still have at least one track still connected, possibly both. I believe one still ties into their main by Heart Truss, but the other switch was removed, making the other a stub track. Last year they had a string of sand hoppers stored long enough that they had to chainsaw a few "trees" to get them back out.

Right, I was just asking and getting clarification since you mentioned 8 & 9 on the last page.

Currently, this "south siding" is known as L07. A yard track owned by CSX. It runs from just west of the crossing at Turner St to 100 yards east of MLK Blvd. There used to be a couple switches off this track by Spike St where an 8 and 9 track connected in, but now only 8 is connected at the east end of the Jail tracks and used for storage when needed.

L07 is where the Jail and CSX interchange cars.

I guess I misunderstood, and you were saying that this spur is used for storage? Otherwise, this doesn't make sense.

[pudgy]

I referenced the 2 tracks north of the Jail main as 8 and 9, but they are not technically csx tracks. The diagram is incomplete as it's missing "8" track. That runs from the east end just south of L07 and dead ends by Spike St, where the switch is for the Jail run around track ("9" track). The Jail uses the run around as needed, but the other track is used for storage when they have cars for such purpose.

[MiddleMI]

Hey, anyone know how many tracks in Cavanaugh/South Yard JAIL uses? The aerials show a pretty rough yard. All I can tell is that the main and one other track seem to traverse the entire yard and connect back together. And then I've seen a video showing a transload on the line to the east of those two. But I can't really tell how the yard works.

[Manistique]

Hey, anyone know how many tracks in Cavanaugh/South Yard JAIL uses? The aerials show a pretty rough yard. All I can tell is that the main and one other track seem to traverse the entire yard and connect back together. And then I've seen a video showing a transload on the line to the east of those two. But I can't really tell how the yard works.

Back when JAIL was formed, it was thought that it could be used as a transload location. If it is being used as such now, good for them. JAIL early on used Cavanaugh Yard for storage of cars when Saginaw Yard was full of stored cars. I recall once seeing it full of cars. Looking at Google Map now, it seems that there may have been one more track in the yard back then, in 2011 or so. The mainline on the far west and the track next to it were welded rail for some reason. I think what was once a yard track was converted to a passing siding here and probably made this way after the yard was largely decommissioned by NS or CR. This is the only welded rail on JAIL other than the joint track with CSX (which JAIL owns, believe it or not). The far east track along the river and park was cut off at some point, at the south end. CR had a boxcar stored (abandoned there) as a warning of end of track. I remember this break in the track being more in the middle than what Google Maps show. Maybe there was a sinkhole there?

Old maps show a long siding off this west track to serve an industry that was on the other side of the river/creek in what is now the park. They also show some Cavanaugh Yard tracks going south of Cavanaugh Road before converging with the mainline, if I recall. There was a yard office tucked in just north of Cavanaugh Street, the foundation is still there. There was what was probably a spotlight tower located there too and a large electrical panel that still exists.

I also think that Cavanaugh Yard went much further north at one time. I recall the underpass for the tracks at Pennsylvania Avenue being much wider than just for a single track.

Kicking around south of Cavanaugh Street I found what looked like the foundation of a one-engine locomotive house on the east side of the main. Odd that they would have one here as NYC had a large roundhouse just north of North Lansing junction where its tracks went north to Owosso and Saginaw. Maybe CR built it when it abandoned the line north of Lansing? I don't know if Saginaw Yard ever had locomotive facilities. I don't really know what Cavanaugh Yard was for what with Saginaw Yard being so big and busy. Maybe for the rest of Lansing other than the beltline?

We originally were going to make Cavanaugh Yard JAIL's base of operations but wisely changed that to Mason at the last minute.

[Dan Cluley]

My understanding is that in the NYC days, Cavanaugh was the main yard for Lansing. Cars would be added or dropped from through trains there. Local crews worked some sidings & the GTW interchange from Cavanaugh. The Belt Line traffic & maybe C&O interchange? would be transfered to Saginaw Yard and then worked from there. All of the engine and caboose servicing was at the roundhouse South of Gier St at that point, and light power would go from there to the 2 yards.

I believe the small engine facility just south of Cavanaugh was built either when Conrail took over & abandoned the line north of town, or shortly before that.

Once the track north was gone & Lansing was the end of the line, I would think that much of the remaining traffic was GM so it made sense to run the whole train to Saginaw Yard & Cavanaugh gradually became less useful.

[chapmaja]

My understanding is that in the NYC days, Cavanaugh was the main yard for Lansing. Cars would be added or dropped from through trains there. Local crews worked some sidings & the GTW interchange from Cavanaugh. The Belt Line traffic & maybe C&O interchange? would be transfered to Saginaw Yard and then worked from there. All of the engine and caboose servicing was at the roundhouse South of Gier St at that point, and light power would go from there to the 2 yards.

I believe the small engine facility just south of Cavanaugh was built either when Conrail took over & abandoned the line north of town, or shortly before that.

Once the track north was gone & Lansing was the end of the line, I would think that much of the remaining traffic was GM so it made sense to run the whole train to Saginaw Yard & Cavanaugh gradually became less useful.

I suspect this is a perfect example of how different things were then, compared with the Conrail Era and now.

Without having a list of trains that run through the Lansing area on the NYC, I can imagine that traffic was significantly different with the Oldsmobile Plant being a heavy contributor to traffic in the region, thus I could see Saginaw Yard being used exclusively for that plant traffic and traffic in the very nearly locations, and the rest of Lansing being serviced by the second yard.

[jrgerber]

Not sure all the industries that NYC serviced in its Lansing heyday but among them was REO the Ottawa St power plant. Not sure which railroads served Motor Wheel and the forge factories. There was certainly a variety of lumber companies as well. I am sure NYC was probably the busiest RR in Lansing at one time. Too bad there isn't a Trackside Lansing book.

[MiddleMI]

I've mocked these up from a Google aerial, the colors are to match since I can't share the whole yard:

North:



South:



Are all of these tracks still in use? The video I saw showed the red (main), yellow (passing?), and turquois (from east-to-west) in use, with the turqouis being used for a transload. Are the blue and white active tracks for storage or anything? They look to be in really rough shape.

[LansingRailFan]

white and blue are oos right now

The rest are used as you guessed/described

[railrod1949]

Also, the switch engines and cabooses at the roundhouse south of Gier Street, handles switching all rail customers along the old NYC's LS&MS that ran between North Lansing and Pleasant Grove Street That trackage cross W> Mt. Hope and S Washington avenues in Lansing. Any tracks charts (maps) would be appreciated.