Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

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TC Man
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Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by TC Man »

This seems it could kill off the propane business GLC has in Cadillac and other points:


New Company Plans to Repurpose Existing Pipeline, Add New Propane Source to Northern Michigan

September 3, 2020 Xavier Hershovitz, Matthew Tamm

A new company is hoping to add an additional source of propane for people living in Northern Michigan.

Silver Wolf Midstream plans to repurpose an existing, idle pipeline to transport propane north.

“It was born out of the need to solve a problem quite frankly,” said CEO Niel Rootare,

The new company plans to repurpose an existing pipeline to supply propane to Northern Michigan.

“There was a real need to find a solution to make propane distribution easier in the state of Michigan,” Rootare said.

Instead of running south, later this year they plan to repurposed the pipeline to run north. Their goal is to be fully operational by winter 2021.

Rootare says that cuts down the distance trucks have to travel and provides a more stable, reliable propane supply to both the Northern Lower and Upper Peninsulas.

“This is a good opportunity for less trucking distance to take place for the folks in the Upper Peninsula, but it’s a wonderful opportunity for the Traverse City, the northern half of Michigan,” Rootare said. “It is a wonderful solution to distribution and security of supply.”

Environmental group Oil and Water Don’t Mix says this is a major breakthrough, giving an additional source of propane as they push for a Line 5 shut down.

“This could potentially be game changer for the UP and allows the governor to immediately address the threat of Line 5 to the straits,” said spokesperson David Holtz. “I think this issue will be a nonissue completely in terms of deciding the future of Line 5.”

However, Line 5 was not a factor in Silver Wolf Midstream’s decision.

“That really had no bearing on what we were going to do,” Rootare said. “We always looked at this as a repurposing of an existing pipeline regardless of what happens with Line 5. My perspective on this from the beginning was all about Michigan being the recipient of those benefits.”

 

GP-35
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Re: Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by GP-35 »

This will NOT hurt GLC, the gas that GLC brings in is trucked to local disterbution points in the north.

TC Man
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Re: Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by TC Man »

But isn't this proposal exactly for that purpose? Piping gas TO northern Michigan for local distribution??

"Rootare says that cuts down the distance trucks have to travel and provides a more stable, reliable propane supply to both the Northern Lower and Upper Peninsulas.

“This is a good opportunity for less trucking distance to take place for the folks in the Upper Peninsula, but it’s a wonderful opportunity for the Traverse City, the northern half of Michigan,” Rootare said. “It is a wonderful solution to distribution and security of supply.”"

GP-35
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Re: Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by GP-35 »

This is someone's pie in the sky dream, its almost as good as passenger trains to Traverse City!!!

TC Man
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Re: Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by TC Man »

Hopefully that's the case, as this proposal (and their "plans" to be operational by winder of 2021) seem to directly compete with GLC's Cadillac transfer site. And nobody in their right mind believes passenger service will come to TC, except maybe tourist trains like when SRI runs (there used to be TC tourist trains long ago during MN days).

GP-35
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Re: Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by GP-35 »

First of all, where is the propane coming from? and oh, there just happens to be an unused pipeline just sitting around not being used!! and second, where is the propane going? in the news story it says, up north, everyone knows about the NIMBY, unless there going to store the LPG under ground, the first time Silver Lake Midstream try's to build a tank farm, here comes the envirmental wackos to shut it down. Maybe in 2050, but not 2021, not gonna happen.

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DaveO
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Re: Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by DaveO »

GP-35 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:59 am
First of all, where is the propane coming from? and oh, there just happens to be an unused pipeline just sitting around not being used!! and second, where is the propane going? in the news story it says, up north, everyone knows about the NIMBY, unless there going to store the LPG under ground, the first time Silver Lake Midstream try's to build a tank farm, here comes the envirmental wackos to shut it down. Maybe in 2050, but not 2021, not gonna happen.
Better story for you to read and get answers
https://www.michiganradio.org/post/usin ... ng-propane

If this gets going, you can bet it will hurt GLC propane traffic.

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Re: Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by Mike H »

GP-35 wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:59 am
First of all, where is the propane coming from? and oh, there just happens to be an unused pipeline just sitting around not being used!! and second, where is the propane going? in the news story it says, up north, everyone knows about the NIMBY, unless there going to store the LPG under ground, the first time Silver Lake Midstream try's to build a tank farm, here comes the envirmental wackos to shut it down. Maybe in 2050, but not 2021, not gonna happen.
I think you are drastically underestimating the situation here. The NIMBY's don't have an argument because the pipeline already exists & simply has to be reversed. You don't need to build some big tank farm to support this facility, you can pull most of it right off the pipe & maybe you have a couple small tanks for surge capacity. Considering the capacity of the pipeline, it alone could handle most of the demand for the entire state so a tank farm is probably not necessary. Propane tanks are set up all over the state every year & I personally have never seen anyone complain about a couple propane tanks.

The only thing GLC has going for them is that this pipeline goes to Marysville & the caverns in Marysville are predominantly filled by propane that is shipped in by rail. This added transportation & terminal handling cost before the propane hits the pipe is an advantage for GLC, but it could still eat into their volume. The one positive thing for GLC which is going to sound backward, is that they have a very tiny market share in the grand scheme of things when you consider how much propane moves to Northern Michigan via truck. The trucks will be impacted long before the railroads will be since the railroads are hauling the propane directly from the refinery in most cases. Every railroad moving propane in Northern Michigan needs to watch this very close & take it very seriously. Considering most of the necessary infrastructure is already in place I would say it's highly likely this happens.

Mike H.

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Re: Reopening a pipeline to bring propane north- hurt GLC?

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Mike H wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:04 pm
The only thing GLC has going for them is that this pipeline goes to Marysville & the caverns in Marysville are predominantly filled by propane that is shipped in by rail. This added transportation & terminal handling cost before the propane hits the pipe is an advantage for GLC, but it could still eat into their volume. The one positive thing for GLC which is going to sound backward, is that they have a very tiny market share in the grand scheme of things when you consider how much propane moves to Northern Michigan via truck. The trucks will be impacted long before the railroads will be since the railroads are hauling the propane directly from the refinery in most cases. Every railroad moving propane in Northern Michigan needs to watch this very close & take it very seriously. Considering most of the necessary infrastructure is already in place I would say it's highly likely this happens.

Mike H.

There are a lot more propane trucks coming in and out of the Marysville facility from northern Michigan trucking companies than most people realize. Even though the Marysville mention is kind of coincidental to the thread, I appreciate your comments, Mike, as they confirm some of my visual observations of truck traffic getting on and off the freeway here (Marysville).

To add to Mike H.'s comment about the volume- it's not unusual to see CSX bring in or take out 30-40+ propane cars on a daily basis, and that doesn't account for the dozens of tank cars sitting on various yard tracks up and down the Port Huron Industrial trackage. I don't know if any of the loaded cars are being interchanged to GLC or LSRC after leaving Marysville- based on how far a load supposedly needs to be carried in order to make money for the railroad, the haul doesn't appear to be long enough (?).

I have not personally counted how many propane hauling trucks come through town, but during their busy season it's unusual not to see at least one between home and the freeway whether coming or going to/from work or other activities. Some come from the Thumb (i.e. Cass City or Bad Axe), but most seem to be from at least halfway across the state (i.e. Alto or Alma and points north).

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