CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

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mach69
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CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by mach69 »

Do you guys know when the lines between Baldwin Avenue and Opdyke Road and Bagley Street to Opdyke Road were torn up? How about the trackage south of Walton Boulevard?

If the Lake Orion plant spur and the is still in use? If not, when was it taken out of service?

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AARR
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by AARR »

It's been about 10 years since Orion Assembly last shipped by rail on the Orion Sub. The yard (what's left of it) was still used for run around moves and the annual Circus Train up until a couple years ago. It was put out of service north of the scrap yard about a year ago.

Last train to use the Romeo Sub was around 1999. Tracdk was removed shortly after IIRC.
mach69 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:41 pm
Do you guys know when the lines between Baldwin Avenue and Opdyke Road and Bagley Street to Opdyke Road were torn up? How about the trackage south of Walton Boulevard?

If the Lake Orion plant spur and the is still in use? If not, when was it taken out of service?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

railrod1949
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by railrod1949 »

mach69 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:41 pm
Do you guys know when the lines between Baldwin Avenue and Opdyke Road and Bagley Street to Opdyke Road were torn up? How about the trackage south of Walton Boulevard?

If the Lake Orion plant spur and the is still in use? If not, when was it taken out of service?


The Lake Orion plant spur is still intact but dead ends just south of Collier Road to serve the former Sam Allen & Son scrap yard in Pontiac. South of Walton Blvd. it still intact to serve the GM metal plant just south of Columbia Avenue.

GTW6401
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by GTW6401 »

Its not technically intact to Orion anymore. They paved over the crossing on Silverbell and portions of rail are missing.

The stretch south of Columbia Avenue also went through back in the day. You can tell where it went thru the neighborhood west of Saginaw Street. It connected into the Holly between Sanderson and M-59.

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MQT1223
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by MQT1223 »

GTW6401 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:48 pm
Its not technically intact to Orion anymore. They paved over the crossing on Silverbell and portions of rail are missing.

The stretch south of Columbia Avenue also went through back in the day. You can tell where it went thru the neighborhood west of Saginaw Street. It connected into the Holly between Sanderson and M-59.
Go really slow on a hot day across that crossing and you'll break through. I'm sure MOW probably has a few spare sticks laying around that can easily be implimented.
1223 OUT! President and Founder of the Buck Creek Central, the Rolling River Route! (2012-2017) President and Founder of the Lamberton Valley Railroad, The Tin Plate Road! Proudly railfanning with Asperger's since 1996. :)

chapmaja
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by chapmaja »

Speaking of the lines in Pontiac, how many customers does CN still have in Pontiac?

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AARR
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by AARR »

Old Sam Allen scrap yard (10 or so cars per week), Lumber Transload(2-5 per month), GM Stamping (about 2 a week), Inland Plywood (rarely anymore), then to the north is TTX frequently) and the landscaping stone place (occasionally).
chapmaja wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:59 am
Speaking of the lines in Pontiac, how many customers does CN still have in Pontiac?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

GTW6401
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by GTW6401 »

Inland Plywood had a car there this week. They get a few boxcars a month.

The lumber transload receives cars for Bolyard Lumber in Rochester Hills.

Lee Industrial also ships with CN in Pontiac occasionally.

Red Lava received 4 hoppers Wednesday evening. Usually BNSF's.

railrod1949
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by railrod1949 »

GTW6401 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:46 pm
Inland Plywood had a car there this week. They get a few boxcars a month.

The lumber transload receives cars for Bolyard Lumber in Rochester Hills.

Lee Industrial also ships with CN in Pontiac occasionally.

Red Lava received 4 hoppers Wednesday evening. Usually BNSF's.
Inland Plywood is located on west side of Cass Avenue, north of Johnson Avenue in Pontiac.

Red Lava is located on Airport Road north of Williams Lake Road about a mile west of me in Waterford.

TTX is located on Williams Lake Road west of Dixie Hwy. also in Waterford.

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conrailmike
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by conrailmike »

AARR wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:34 pm
It's been about 10 years since Orion Assembly last shipped by rail on the Orion Sub. The yard (what's left of it) was still used for run around moves and the annual Circus Train up until a couple years ago. It was put out of service north of the scrap yard about a year ago.

Last train to use the Romeo Sub was around 1999. Tracdk was removed shortly after IIRC.
mach69 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:41 pm
Do you guys know when the lines between Baldwin Avenue and Opdyke Road and Bagley Street to Opdyke Road were torn up? How about the trackage south of Walton Boulevard?

If the Lake Orion plant spur and the is still in use? If not, when was it taken out of service?

Been longer than 10 years, they stopped shipping vehicles when I was still there building the Pontiac G6, and that stopped in 2009 (model year 2010). We built the last G6 in November of 2009 and they had quit shipping by rail maybe even at the end of 2008.

MRC_Andrew
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by MRC_Andrew »

While we're on the topic of Pontiac's rail lines, what was the name of the long-gone junction on the far east side of the city where the Michigan Air Line came in from the east and crossed the north-south portion of the Belt Line? For that matter, when was that part of the Belt Line between the junction in question and the Holly Sub abandoned. There is almost zero sign of that part of the line today...

ConrailDetr​oit
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

That would be PON Junction.

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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by C&O Dispatcher »

PON Jct was (is?) on the north side of town by Walton Blvd. The crossing of the Air Line with the Belt Line when it continued south all the way to the Holly Sub was called MAL Jct. The crossing of the Air Line with the Holly Sub at the south end of town was called MAL Crossing. When the Belt Line was truncated and became just the connection to the Romeo Sub, that junction was then called Belt Jct. They then renamed what used to be MAL Crossing on the Holly Sub (junction with Jackson Sub) to MAL Jct. Anybody confused yet??

MRC_Andrew
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by MRC_Andrew »

C&O Dispatcher wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:18 pm
PON Jct was (is?) on the north side of town by Walton Blvd. The crossing of the Air Line with the Belt Line when it continued south all the way to the Holly Sub was called MAL Jct. The crossing of the Air Line with the Holly Sub at the south end of town was called MAL Crossing. When the Belt Line was truncated and became just the connection to the Romeo Sub, that junction was then called Belt Jct. They then renamed what used to be MAL Crossing on the Holly Sub (junction with Jackson Sub) to MAL Jct. Anybody confused yet??
No wonder I couldn't remember the name!

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AARR
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by AARR »

Thank you for the background.
MRC_Andrew wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:26 pm
C&O Dispatcher wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:18 pm
PON Jct was (is?) on the north side of town by Walton Blvd. The crossing of the Air Line with the Belt Line when it continued south all the way to the Holly Sub was called MAL Jct. The crossing of the Air Line with the Holly Sub at the south end of town was called MAL Crossing. When the Belt Line was truncated and became just the connection to the Romeo Sub, that junction was then called Belt Jct. They then renamed what used to be MAL Crossing on the Holly Sub (junction with Jackson Sub) to MAL Jct. Anybody confused yet??
No wonder I couldn't remember the name!
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

C&O Dispatcher
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by C&O Dispatcher »

Here's a photo I had on my computer that shows how they used a label maker to cover over MAL Crossing with MAL Jct on the CTC console in Pontiac:
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10418242_527129980766623_1322779395610694376_n.jpg

chapmaja
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by chapmaja »

So, I'm trying to figure out what each of the lines is / was in Pontiac and the surrounding area.

The easiest one is the Holly Subdivision, which still exists and is the main track running through Pontiac.

Starting on the south end of town, in the vicinity of Brush and Linfere St there was a line that crossed the Holly Subdivision. Looking at the maps, I assume this was the Michigan Air Line's original route that ran from Jackson to Pontiac and to points east? This was the point known as MAL Jct correct?

How long was the part of this line east of Woodward to west of Opdyke in place? From this location heading east along what is now the Clinton River trail was the Romeo subdivision, correct? This lasted until what, the late 1990's before it was removed. What was the junction at this location known as?

Going north from this location (just east of Opdyke) was the Pontial Belt Line correct? This was the line that went next to the Silverdome site, and wrapped around the north side.

Belt Line Jct was where this line crossed the line that headed north (PO&N ). The Belt Line continued west, where it joined into the Holly Subdivision at the north end of Pontiac Yard.

The PO&N used to run from Holly Subdivision near Cass Ave and Sanderson Ave north (along Saginaw St) between the GM plants and continued north past Belt Line Jct and onward north.

When as the section to the Orion assembly plant added?

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conrailmike
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by conrailmike »

chapmaja wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:36 pm

When as the section to the Orion assembly plant added?
Orion Assembly started production in December of 1983 so I would assume during the construction of it.

MRC_Andrew
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by MRC_Andrew »

Here's a couple maps I've found that give an overview of the Pontiac area in general during 1947:
http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/ ... /Michigan/

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/ ... /Michigan/

As far as I know, all rail lines are shown and named.

chapmaja
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Re: CN / GTW lines in Pontiac

Unread post by chapmaja »

MRC_Andrew wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:51 pm
Here's a couple maps I've found that give an overview of the Pontiac area in general during 1947:
http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/ ... /Michigan/

http://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/US/ ... /Michigan/

As far as I know, all rail lines are shown and named.
Very interesting maps. Was there ever a connection between the Air Line and the Holly Subdivision, of did trains have to take the Belt Line around Pontiac to head west on the Air Line? I thought I recall an article about a trip on the line in the 1960's that said they had to back down the main to head west and had to back into the yard upon their return from Jackson. This would indicate a connection, but the map from 1947 doesn't show a connection between the lines. Was this something added later?

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