CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Anything pertaining to railfanning in Michigan.
DaveO
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:57 pm
Location: Between here and there

CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by DaveO »

"certain non-core lines in Wisconsin, Michigan and Ontario."
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-rele ... Times.html

User avatar
~Z~
Sofa King Admin
Posts: 10935
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Contact:

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by ~Z~ »

Hmmm... let the speculation begin!
Perhaps CN's line between Flat Rock and Dundee, or perhaps either Durand-Detroit or Port Huron-Detroit to eliminate one of those two routes. Hopefully they don't toss any of their upper peninsula routes, but that certainly could happen.
Webmaster
Railroad photos on Railroadfan.com

User avatar
justalurker66
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 1513
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:51 am

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by justalurker66 »

https://www.newsbreak.com/news/16042885 ... an-ontario

Paywalled but Trains Magazine says "Former Wisconsin Central lines account for much of the trackage, executives say"

User avatar
AARR
Ann Arbor RR Nerd
Posts: 32140
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:39 pm
Location: Washington, MI

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by AARR »

I'm surprised CN hung on to the Munising and L'Anse branches this long. Perhaps E&LS will pick something else up. Whoever gets them I hope they can get the pulp log business back.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

DaveO
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:57 pm
Location: Between here and there

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by DaveO »

I think the Algoma Central, all CN lines in the UP, and the 2 CN lines in Wisconsin that enter the UP are up for sale.

I don't think CN will put any lines in southeast Michigan up for sale.

Guess we will find out sooner than later.

LansingRailFan
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:21 pm
Location: Lansing

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

LAKE STATE WILL PICK IT UP I HAVE A SOURCE

User avatar
SD80MAC
Ingersoll's Mr. Michigan
Posts: 8394
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:59 pm
Location: Grand Rapids

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by SD80MAC »

~Z~ wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:44 pm
Hmmm... let the speculation begin!
Perhaps CN's line between Flat Rock and Dundee, or perhaps either Durand-Detroit or Port Huron-Detroit to eliminate one of those two routes. Hopefully they don't toss any of their upper peninsula routes, but that certainly could happen.
They're definitely talking about most if not all of the UP trackage. The only thing that "might" be sold off in the lower peninsula would be the DT&I south of Flat Rock. I just don't see them getting rid of the Holly or Mt. Clemens.
"Remember, 4 mph is a couple, 5's a collision!"
http://flickriver.com/photos/conrail680 ... teresting/
Image

DaveO
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:57 pm
Location: Between here and there

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by DaveO »

LansingRailFan wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:05 am
LAKE STATE WILL PICK IT UP I HAVE A SOURCE
Relay a few miles of rail and Chief Wawatam is back in business 8)
Wait, what's this about it being scrapped :?: It can't be :wink:

penn central
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 1307
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:07 pm

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by penn central »

AARR wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:59 am
I'm surprised CN hung on to the Munising and L'Anse branches this long. Perhaps E&LS will pick something else up. Whoever gets them I hope they can get the pulp log business back.
I am also surprised they held onto this trackage as long as they have. Im thinking the Kalamazoo Sub goes to the Grand Elk and the Flat Rock Sub goes to the I&O possibly.

User avatar
Eric Berger
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:17 am
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by Eric Berger »

Can't comment on the others, as I have no idea about any of them, but I agree with penn central; I definitely see the Flat Rock Sub going to I&O. On the other hand, would I&O actually want the costs of upkeep and maintenance on that line? Still, I can picture CN desiring to divest that line; once upon a time it was fairly busy, but in recent years I haven't seen much of anything along there outside of the morning/early afternoon hours.
"From a really tall tower, in the middle of a really big field..."

strugglin
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 611
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:53 pm
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by strugglin »

As soon as I saw this my first thought was the Mount Clemens Sub, but I guess I didn't consider the lines in the UP, certainly much more likely to be sold.

Does anyone know a current daily train count on the Mount Clemens Sub? I thought it was 4 per day, 2 locals, but what do I know, I'm in Ohio! Are there any trains that run the line that can not run via Durand and the Holly Sub instead? Are there any major customers left on the Mount Clemens Sub?

I would love any move that brings more trains through Durand when I visit, which is maybe 20 per day now?

GTW6401
how bout no
Posts: 7507
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by GTW6401 »

The Mt. Clemens Subdivision shouldn't go anywhere. CN just installed a brand new signal system.

Why would they run via Durand? Its about 50 miles from Port Huron to Detroit.

Port Huron to Durand is 85 miles plus another 65 to Detroit.

MRC_Andrew
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:28 pm

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by MRC_Andrew »

GTW6401 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:07 pm
CN just installed a brand new signal system and PTC on the Mt. Clemens Subdivision.
They put new signals on the former DT&I south of Flat Rock, too. In the last ten years or so the Holly Sub has been getting new signals, hasn't it? These are all things that happen when a line is being prepared for possible sale, I believe. While I think most of the lines involved in the sale will be in upper peninsula, I can't help but wonder about the Holly Sub. How many trains are run between Durand and Detroit these days? The few times I've been able to get out in the last couple years Pontiac Yard has been dead, filled mostly with stored lumber cars. Is there any through traffic that couldn't just as easily be run down the Mt. Clemens Sub? Strictly guessing out loud here with no evidence, but would somebody like Great Lakes Central be interested in all or part of the Holly Sub? We shall see in due time, regardless of eventual outcomes. It's all speculation in any case.

Man o' War
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by Man o' War »

I believe that CN line sales will be largely, if not entirely, relegated to the upper peninsula routes. There will be a million man colony on Jupiter before they ever part with the Holly or Mount Clemens subdivisions. Those two line are vital and extremely important links in the CN midwest thought process. To answer the above question by strugglin, the MTC sub has a ton of local business between Detroit and Chesterfield - with lumber facilities in Detroit (Nolan yard distribution) and Mount Clemens (Carter Lumber), chemicals at Polyterm (Gillen yard), automotive (FCA/Chrysler) in Mount Clemens, drywall (B&D in Mount Clemens), and recycled paper products (Great Lakes Recycling) in Fraser. FCA is currently being switched 2/3 times daily. The line sees on average 8-10 trains a day with L515 (Pontiac - East Detroit and return), L533 (Port Huron - Detroit East yard and return), A482, A483, A484, A485, E271 (currently 4-6 times per week), and extras as need. As far as actual tonnage being moved, I'd guess that the Mount Clemens is considerably busier than the Holly at this point.

Man o' War

GTW6401
how bout no
Posts: 7507
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by GTW6401 »

CN put in new signals along the Shoreline also... Might as well put that on the list too. My point was that upgrading infrastructure doesn't mean they will sell it.

Technically part of the Holly is already gone south of Milwaukee Junction. I also heard that they were looking to spinoff the Holly in the 1990s, so don't say never.... Its like the showcase showdown...it all can yours if the price is right!

So what runs on the Holly? 116, 450, 451, 513, 514 & 515 are the regular jobs, plus Amtrak.

280's are running autoracks again for Flat Rock.

Sand extras to Toledo run as required, but that traffic is very rare now.

A recent development is having 482 setout Toledo cars at East Yard. This has started after 401 was abolished between Lang and Battle Creek. This traffic is moved to Pontiac by 515 or 513. 533 also drops cars at East Yard that are moved via Pontiac.

strugglin
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 611
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:53 pm
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by strugglin »

Thanks Man o' War, seems I was mistaken in thinking the Holly had more traffic then Mount Clemens, I was thinking of Amtrak up to Pontiac as well, but hearing that seems like they can't afford to part with either line. I just assumed there was more Detroit-Chicago trains, then Detroit-Ontario and points east, but that makes sense, much more CN mileage in Canada that way. Hard to see CN selling any line that gets more then say 6 moves per day.

Also just looked to see where the Flint & Mt Clemens Subs meet in Port Huron, no SW connection there west of the yard, so even if say they sold the Holly Sub between Pontiac-Durand, all Chicago-Detroit based trains would need to enter yard and run power around the train both ways if they were not able to use they Holly Sub.

joeyuboats
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:25 am

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by joeyuboats »

Hello. Just where is the FCA plant in Mt. Clemens on the GT Mt. Clemens sub?

MRC_Andrew
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:28 pm

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by MRC_Andrew »

Well, it looks like I'm all wet regarding my views on the Holly Sub; lots more trains on the Holly than I realized, as pointed out by Man o' War, and completely forgot to take into account the wye arrangement between the Mt Clemens and Flint Subs in Port Huron, as noted by strugglin. Thanks for the info...

Man o' War
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:27 pm

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by Man o' War »

joeyuboats wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:56 pm
Hello. Just where is the FCA plant in Mt. Clemens on the GT Mt. Clemens sub?
FCA occupies part of the old Ford Motor Company vinyl plant just east of what is now NORTH MOUNT (siding) at Hubbard Street. Lately, it was used as a storage and distribution facility for Metro Aluminum. FCA receives parts (springs and engines) from Mexico via Union Pacific in Chicago, and distributes them to various plants. As I write this, they are being switched by L533 for the 3rd time since midnight, Busy, busy, busy. Converting the old Water Plug hand throw siding in Mount Clemens to a CTC controlled siding has paid off handsomely, as the local is continuously clearing up for road freights here. The 10,000' siding at HAVEN is reserved for meets between the massive manifests that ply the line...

Man o' War

ConrailDetr​oit
Railroadfan...fan
Posts: 4805
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:04 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: CN puts Wisconsin-Michigan-Ontario lines up for sale

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

GTW6401 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:16 pm
Technically part of the Holly is already gone south of Milwaukee Junction. I also heard that they were looking to spinoff the Holly in the 1990s, so don't say never.... Its like the showcase showdown...it all can yours if the price is right!
What was the reason for spinoff of the Holly in the 90s? Back then with strong auto business from GM Pontiac, GM Poletown, loaded Coal in both directions, and overall more business in southeast Michigan, etc.

Word is the Mt Clemens Sub was nearly abandoned from Nolan to Richmond in the early 90s with only a few trains and a local and existing traffic going to the Romeo Sub before that was gone.

Post Reply