Another dumb AA question......

Anything pertaining to railfanning in Michigan.

Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby MIGN-Todd » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:17 am

The AA shut down North of Ann Arbor and kept just its current 50 mile stretch back in the 80's. Why? Is it because that section guaranteed them easy money and little hassle? There was freight service on the line from Yuma to Ann Arbor portion. GLC humps some pretty big trains everyday on it. Unit grain trains, sand trains etc. With the State owning it, much needed repairs would come. Just hard for me to understand why they would just throw away that large of portion when they could have possibly have run it with profit. Since I'm only a part-time armchair railroader :shock: , I have stupid questions left unanswered. I've read a lot regarding the Annie and all the issues back then but what if that, happened now? Would like they be like they are now still or would they be more like GLC but including that southern most section? I hate seeing the line broken up. Needs to be one again. Maybe cheaper for customers too.
U.S.Army Retired- under new management (see wife)
User avatar
MIGN-Todd
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby chapmaja » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:29 pm

The current status of the AA dates back to it's proposed (and actual) inclusion into Conrail. The section from Dundee (cement plant) to Toledo was proposed to be included into Conrail. At some point the line from Ann Arbor south to Toledo was included in the final Conrail plan. The State of Michigan did not agree with this, and as a result arranged to purchase the entire line from Toledo to Frankfort. Conrail was the designated operator of the entire line from April 1st, 1976 until October 1st 1977 when Michigan Interstate was designated as the operator of the entire line. At some point Michigan Interstate must have purchased the Toledo-Ann Arbor section which was to have been included in Conrail. This section was not purchased by the State of Michigan. Fast forward a few years and the State of Michigan and Michigan Interstate don't have an agreement on certain aspects of their agreement. As a result Michigan Interstate is removed by the State of Michigan as the operator of the line between Ann Arbor and Frankfort. The line from Ann Arbor to Alma is designated to the TSBY, while the Michigan Northern gets access to the line north of Alma. This happened short after the car ferry's stopped operation, so I don't know how far north MIGN actually ran from Cadillac.

Fast forward a few more years and MIGN is facing their own problems and is removed as the operator of all tracks owned by the State of Michigan. TSBY becomes the designated operator of these lines as well. MIGN supposedly owned something like 10 miles of track, so they held onto those miles for a few years. The SOM decided to abandon the Cadillac to Grand Rapids route at some point and all traffic from up north was routed via the TSBY to Durand (CN), AnnPere (CSX), or the Ann Arbor (formed after bankruptcy of the Michigan Interstate) to head to Toledo.

Hopes this helps explain who the RR ended up in three, then 2 pieces.
chapmaja
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby chapmaja » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:36 pm

One thing to remember, some of the traffic that is coming down the GLC to the AA now, was not going to the AA back then. The traffic from north of Cadillac (and during the MIGN operation north of Alma from Yuma also) were being sent via the MIGN to Grand Rapids to be handed off to Conrail. Additionally the TSBY/GLC also picked up additional cars that once were CSX cars before CSX removed the Midland-Ludington lines. The lease and sale of lines to CMGN, MMRR, and HESR also likely plays a part in the traffic going south on the GLC. From what I've witnessed, such as the potash train yesterday, traffic going north to the HESR from NS will often use the AA/GLC rather than CN to HESR (Toledo to Durand), or go NS-CSX-Lake State-HESR.

The changing landscape of the railroads has played a part in why the AA/GLC now is doing much better than the AA was doing back then.
chapmaja
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby Henry F. Burger » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:49 pm

The reason MIGN got MP 0 to MP 50 was court action on MDOT for lack of payment, MIGN went into receivership, and bought out - later by WATCO!
Henry F. Burger
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 7:48 pm

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby cfriedri » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:04 am

I for one would have no opposition if the AA and GLC joined forces via Watco. Would be a good opportunity for me to come back home rather than conducting away for the WSOR :lol:
Connor
WSOR
User avatar
cfriedri
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:13 pm
Location: Janesville, WI, USA

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby chapmaja » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:16 am

Henry F. Burger wrote:The reason MIGN got MP 0 to MP 50 was court action on MDOT for lack of payment, MIGN went into receivership, and bought out - later by WATCO!


I think you mean Michigan Interstate, not MIGN. Otherwise that would make sense. Where exactly is MP50. My track chart shows 50 as Osmer, but I don't think they actually own all the way to Osmer. I think it is only to about 48 or so.
chapmaja
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 790
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby AARR » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:24 am

I believe it is Osmer although the interchange between AA/TSB was originally Ferry Yard but it soon changed to Osmer.
chapmaja wrote:
Henry F. Burger wrote:The reason MIGN got MP 0 to MP 50 was court action on MDOT for lack of payment, MIGN went into receivership, and bought out - later by WATCO!


I think you mean Michigan Interstate, not MIGN. Otherwise that would make sense. Where exactly is MP50. My track chart shows 50 as Osmer, but I don't think they actually own all the way to Osmer. I think it is only to about 48 or so.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...
User avatar
AARR
Ann Arbor RR Nerd
 
Posts: 31971
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:39 pm
Location: Washington, MI

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby Steve B » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:31 pm

The ownership divide is somewhere between Barton Dr (MP 47.19) and Traver Rd (MP 48.39). FRA crossing database shows Barton as AA, Traver as GLC. Why the heck that spot was picked would be interesting to know. Perhaps it was effectively the northern "yard limit."

Michigan Interstate might have been able to keep running the whole line, or at least to Yuma, if the state had followed through on contractually obligated track upgrades, ditched the ferries earlier, hadn't blown tens of millions on the tug/barge project, and if there wasn't that horrible recession from 1979 to 1983. The track was so bad they needed extra crews to get from Toledo to Elberta. The rate flagout increased ferry traffic but they lost money on every car. Deregulation of 1980 soon would have erased that rate advantage if it wasn't happening already. Mich Interstate rehabbed some GP35s but apparently was never repaid fully by the state, as the contract called for.

The line from Whitmore Lake to Toledo was never part of the subsidy fight, since Mich Interstate made money on it with the Ford Saline, Whitmore Lake factory, Toledo, and interchange traffic.

MIGN hauled some natural gas liquids from Kalkaska to Alma via the AA, plus occasionally ran to Pet Milk at Frankfort. I think the state pulled the Cadillac-Grand Rapids plug at the same time that TSBY picked up Alma-Frankfort, within 6 months of each other anyway.

Does anybody know if TSBY ever ran to Reed City from Cadillac? I know that segment technically wasn't abandoned until later.
Steve B
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:03 pm
Location: East Lansing

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby AARR » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:38 pm

IIRC TSB ran to Reed City briefly before switching the Chessie interchange to Clare. I don't think the ran south of Reed City though.
Steve B wrote:Does anybody know if TSBY ever ran to Reed City from Cadillac? I know that segment technically wasn't abandoned until later.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...
User avatar
AARR
Ann Arbor RR Nerd
 
Posts: 31971
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:39 pm
Location: Washington, MI

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby NS3322 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:55 pm

AARR wrote:IIRC TSB ran to Reed City briefly before switching the Chessie interchange to Clare. I don't think the ran south of Reed City though.
Steve B wrote:Does anybody know if TSBY ever ran to Reed City from Cadillac? I know that segment technically wasn't abandoned until later.


Did the Yoplait factory ever use rail service? Or was it built after everything was abandoned?
User avatar
NS3322
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:08 pm
Location: CP-LEVITT

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby Buster Manning » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:34 pm

Yoplait never used rail in Reed City.....and they got the ok from the state to build across the right-of-way before any other part of the line from Comstock Park to Cadillac was pulled up
Buster Manning
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 515
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby MIGN-Todd » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:31 pm

I'd like to think that the Annie line will once again be "one". Between the two I'd bet on GLC. Who knows, one day I could wake up and see the whole thing now run by LSRC...…. or even a new "Michigan Consolidated or Mi-Con". It costs nothing to speculate. Michigan Rail is hard to figure out though too many questions and so few answers. Once you think you know what's going to happen- boom, -hey look at this, something new......
U.S.Army Retired- under new management (see wife)
User avatar
MIGN-Todd
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Traverse City, Michigan

Re: Another dumb AA question......

Unread postby MIGN-Todd » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:33 pm

Buster Manning wrote:Yoplait never used rail in Reed City.....and they got the ok from the state to build across the right-of-way before any other part of the line from Comstock Park to Cadillac was pulled up

If I can recall, didn't they look into rail for this? Relaying is pricey I know but the distance isn't too great. Never heard the end of the story
U.S.Army Retired- under new management (see wife)
User avatar
MIGN-Todd
Railroadfan...fan
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Traverse City, Michigan


Return to Michigan Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

x