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Lansing Sub?

Unread postPosted: Sat May 09, 2020 11:44 pm
by MQT1223
So was at one point the former PM line from Seymour to Ensel called the Lansing Sub? I've heard a few older folks call this portion of the Plymouth Sub the Lansing Sub yet I've never seen it appear on any track chart or official documentation (Which would make Plymouth to Ensel the actual Plymouth Sub).

I've also talked with a few others familiar with the route such as SD80MAC and he has also debunked any claims on this as well. I was more or less curious if anyone else has ever heard this before. Wondering if this is more just railfan slang then anything, or maybe something from when the PM was in charge and being a smaller road it was divided into smaller sections.

Re: Lansing Sub?

Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 12:50 am
by Saturnalia
I have a 2005 CSX Chicago Division Timetable which calls the section from WAS EE Trowbridge to WAS Seymour the "Lansing Sub"

By 2011 the Lansing Sub and Plymouth Sub were re-merged back into the Plymouth Sub. I don't know when they were split apart but a 1978 document from the Chessie System shows Plymouth to Seymour as the Plymouth Sub. Probably just an accounting thing.

Other subdivision changes of note include the Grand Rapids Sub, which was previously the Chicago Sub. The Fremont Sub was only from Berry Jct to Fremont, with the Montague Sub reigning from Holland to Montague. There were many others like this over on the east side of the state as well too...there used to be a Wixom Sub, for instance...

Re: Lansing Sub?

Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 6:31 am
by C&O Dispatcher
When CSX moved dispatching to Jacksonville in 1988, the only portion of the Michigan lines moved was what was left of the Saginaw dispatching district territory plus the Detroit Sub. The Grand Rapids dispatchers stayed put until they could get that portion up and running in Jacksonville. I was gone by then, so don't know the date that occurred. When it did, I'm pretty sure there were two different dispatching desks in Jacksonville handling the Michigan lines. I believe the Plymouth Sub from Plymouth to Trowbridge was given to the "east side" dispatcher, and the portion from Trowbridge to Seymour was given to the "west side" dispatcher. Since two different dispatchers under the new system couldn't "share" a Sub, they renamed Trowbridge to Seymour the Lansing Sub. I believe this is true, but feel free to correct me (and please do if not correct!). Actually, after Octboer, 1988 when the initial move was made, a set of dispatchers remained in Saginaw for awhile and handled the Wash Ave-Mershon interlockings, and what was left of the CTC between Mershon and Dean and between Baldwin and Ludington. Not sure what year that ended, but early 90's for sure.

The Wixom Sub was mentioned above. Before 1969, there were two main divisions on the C&O Northern Region: Saginaw and Grand Rapids Divisions. In 1969, a "Detroit" Division was added which extended from Detroit to Beck Road Plymouth, and from Wixom diamond to Alexis. I guess because traffic was so robust back then, they felt they needed to have a superintendent in charge of just that traffic area. Saginaw to Wixom was the Wixom Sub, and Wixom to Alexis was the Toledo Sub. That's also when the Plymouth Sub was born, since before that Detroit to Grand Rapids was all called the Detroit Sub. By 1977, the 3 divisions were consolidated into one division called the Michigan Division, and later in 1987, CSX renamed everything the Detroit Division. I've lost track since then!

Re: Lansing Sub?

Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 4:02 pm
by BL2-1843
Regarding the previous thread, my records show the Saginaw Dispatchers first went to over the air radio transmissions on 4-21-85. GRP dispatcher's did the same on 5-11-85. As far as the first moves to Jacksonville, Saginaw first went on 11-1-88, while GRP dispatchers did not make the move until 2-27-90. Have a ton of info like this on various things over the years.

Re: Lansing Sub?

Unread postPosted: Sun May 10, 2020 5:15 pm
by C&O Dispatcher
I remember when we first got the radios in Saginaw, but thanks for exact date (that I couldn't recall--only that it was 1985.) I was working the west end (Ludington Sub) on the day the south end to Toledo was cut over to Jacksonvile. I remember it as 10/28/88 as that was my last day with CSX. Not long after JAX took control, someone cut through a fiber optic cable and cut off all communication with JAX! I remember we could still hear the trains hollering for the dispatcher on the phone line and the radio, but we were helpless to do anything because we no longer had the control!