Derailment in Mancelona

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Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby NSSD70ACe » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:34 pm

Several cars on the ground in Mancelona. Local cops asking people to avoid the area “at all cost”.

https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/10/trai ... -cost.html
If the Conductor is in charge of the train, then why is he promoted to Engineer?
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby PatAzo » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:43 pm

Sounds overly dramatic for derailed hoppers.
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby NSSD70ACe » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:27 pm

PatAzo wrote:Sounds overly dramatic for derailed hoppers.


Probably just wanted to stop people from congregating at the site. Probably just ended up bringing more out :lol:
If the Conductor is in charge of the train, then why is he promoted to Engineer?
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby AARR » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:56 pm

There aren't that many people in Mancelona to begin with much less someone who cares about trains. Although maybe the officer was talking to KC :wink: :P :lol:
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby Doktor No » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:56 pm

Seeings how US131 goes within a few yards of the area I will assume that's a wish that ain't gonna happen.
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby kd_1014 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:31 pm

"A few box cars" LOL
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby Standard Railfan » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:00 am

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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby KingsleyRailFan » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:34 pm

I drove out there today and took a few pictures from my moving car.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1j5HU8stJwtoZCvK5IWpiGD_DxZ1i_oMo?usp=sharing

Engines involved were SD40-2 382 (recently moved up here) and GP38-2 396. Neither engine was damaged. They are sitting a little bit aways from the wreckage. Most if not all of the hoppers involved are total losses. It looks like the rail collapsed from underneath the cars, where the units derailed the track is very low compared to the rest of the line. One road is completely blocked by the wreckage, and one hopper impaled itself into the ground, creating a large crater and a sledding hill.
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby DLM » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:06 pm

Was the train northbound or southbound?
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby KingsleyRailFan » Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:14 pm

DLM wrote:Was the train northbound or southbound?


North to Petoskey.
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby hoborich » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:24 pm

Given the extent of damage to the ground and the cars, they must have been going somewhat fast, say 30MPH. They didn't just drop a couple trucks on the ground. The wreckage is fairly well strewed around and extensive. Also, we have had a lot of rain in the area lately. Was getting downright depressing!
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby Doktor No » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:52 pm

hoborich wrote:Given the extent of damage to the ground and the cars, they must have been going somewhat fast, say 30MPH. They didn't just drop a couple trucks on the ground. The wreckage is fairly well strewed around and extensive. Also, we have had a lot of rain in the area lately. Was getting downright depressing!

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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby Super Chief » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:44 pm

So the GLC sent an SD-40-2 across the Manistee River bridge? I'll bet that made her shake a little even at 10 mph. What's the weight difference between an SD and a GP-35? I know the Pennsy sent some large steam and diesels to Mackinaw City but a lot of years have passed on the infastructure since then and now. Also 1225 is prohibited from that bridge and the US-131 overpass. Since East Jordan foundry has a presence in Elmira as well as the cement place now is that why an SD-40 has been assigned to Cadillac? I thought with all the grain on the south end of the GLC those two units would stay down there?
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby Saturnalia » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:17 pm

Super Chief wrote:So the GLC sent an SD-40-2 across the Manistee River bridge? I'll bet that made her shake a little even at 10 mph. What's the weight difference between an SD and a GP-35? I know the Pennsy sent some large steam and diesels to Mackinaw City but a lot of years have passed on the infastructure since then and now. Also 1225 is prohibited from that bridge and the US-131 overpass. Since East Jordan foundry has a presence in Elmira as well as the cement place now is that why an SD-40 has been assigned to Cadillac? I thought with all the grain on the south end of the GLC those two units would stay down there?

I've only ever heard that the Manistee River Bridge was too light for the 1225, is the US131 part true?

Quickie comparison of relevant locomotive weights, and their weight per foot of locomotive:
GP35: 260,000 lbs; 4600 lbs/ft
SD40-2: 368,000 lbs; 5300 lbs/ft
ES44AC: 415,000 lbs; 5600 lbs/ft
PM 1225: 805,900 lbs; 8000 lbs/ft

Fun to note that SD40-2s get a continuous tractive effort of 82,100 lbf to the ES44AC's 166,000 lbf, even with only an additional 1400 hp and 47,000 lbs. The SD40-2 might be the engineer's engine, but GEVOs can really dig in and pull, once they load up, and unless they're throwing some errant diagnostic and unload themselves. :lol:

Compare that to the 1225, which only gets about 70,000 lbf. They're really freaking heavy but have larger drivers, no electronic traction control (obviously), and put only half their weight on the drivers compared with 100% for the three diesels here.
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby Super Chief » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:41 am

Thanks for the comparisons on tractive effort. That picture of a Baldwin centipede going thru Carp Lake on its way to Mackinaw still blows my mind. Anybody know whose handlung the clean-up of the cars? Hulcher or Corman is gonna make a motel up there very happy.
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby AARR » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:15 am

EJIW transloads coke from Cadillac so they don't get any traffic around Elmira other than possibly a few carloads of equipment.

Cement numbers seem below the 20-40 per week projections (that's a shocker isn't it :P ) with the exception of last year when the plywood plant in Grayling was under construction.
Super Chief wrote:Since East Jordan foundry has a presence in Elmira as well as the cement place now is that why an SD-40 has been assigned to Cadillac?
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby GP30M4216 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:35 pm

This article is well written and has some useful info:

https://www.record-eagle.com/news/local_news/train-derails-in-mancelona-hampers-product-deliveries/article_ee110ef6-fa88-11e9-b234-6bb9f50b4dd6.html

The tv footage from upnorthlive.com is priceless!
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby Todd_F » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:54 am

AARR wrote:EJIW transloads coke from Cadillac so they don't get any traffic around Elmira other than possibly a few carloads of equipment.

Cement numbers seem below the 20-40 per week projections (that's a shocker isn't it :P ) with the exception of last year when the plywood plant in Grayling was under construction.
Super Chief wrote:Since East Jordan foundry has a presence in Elmira as well as the cement place now is that why an SD-40 has been assigned to Cadillac?


I think the SD's are randomly assigned. Last spring I filmed GLC 329 (the ex ATSF SD45) between Caddy and Petoskey hauling 3 plastic pellets hoppers NBD and I think 7 total SBD (2 from Petoskey, 5 from Elmira). That tells me they didn't send the big SD up to Petoskey/Elmira to pull extra tonnage when one Geep would have sufficed.
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby SD80MAC » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:02 am

The SD40s typically stay south of Cadillac but there's nothing preventing them from running to Petoskey or even up to Traverse City, which they have done more than once since they got them.
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Re: Derailment in Mancelona

Unread postby KingsleyRailFan » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:22 am

Seems to me that they don't have a numbering ... program? and they just assign the numbers with numbers that either aren't in use or are ex-units. That seems to make the most sense but since they haven't received any new units recently I can't really proof this.
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