Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City, Mi

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Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City, Mi

Unread postby KingsleyRailFan » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:19 pm

Last night GLC 398 was going towards Cadillac yard and it became stuck at a crossing blocking the road for approximately 6 hours. It eventually was freed and continued on its route at approximatly 11:11 PM, 6 hours later than usual
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby SD80MAC » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:53 pm

The video I saw was of GLC 329.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby AARR » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:01 pm

From TC John at MichiganRailroads.com
Stuck again!!

Posted by TC John on 2/15/2019, 2:21 pm, in reply to "GLC back in TC again today"

GLC has 329 and another (399??) blocking Woodmere for the last 1.5 hours. Woodmere closed at the tracks. This crossing they went through twice yesterday, so unsure if they are stuck or off the rails. I'd think if only stuck, they could uncouple and move one loco and the lumber loads...Seems they really need the plow or spreader up here.

KingsleyRailFan wrote:Last night GLC 398 was going towards Cadillac yard and it became stuck at a crossing blocking the road for approximately 6 hours. It eventually was freed and continued on its route at approximatly 11:11 PM, 6 hours later than usual
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby hoborich » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:37 pm

How do two locos get stuck in the snow?
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby KingsleyRailFan » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:45 am

SD80MAC wrote:The video I saw was of GLC 329.

I'm looking at a facebook video I was sent and the 2 looked like a 9, guess it was 329. First time in a while a train's gotten stuck on the TC line, usually the major stuff happens on the Kalkaska sub.

Edit: Video of the worst accident in this area in a while, other being a collision with a car [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl2ptd8tVBk[/youtube]
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby Jeff Smith » Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:23 am

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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby Super Chief » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:48 am

Where did the 8 come into play? The way this is worded is it stuck in Cadillac or Traverse City? If in TC then the track work must be done to support 6 axles in town? I see SRI is using LV 126 up north for trips out of Kalkaska in April. Would think 1225 is still restricted to south of Cadillac?
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby SD80MAC » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:17 am

Super Chief wrote:Where did the 8 come into play? The way this is worded is it stuck in Cadillac or Traverse City? If in TC then the track work must be done to support 6 axles in town? I see SRI is using LV 126 up north for trips out of Kalkaska in April. Would think 1225 is still restricted to south of Cadillac?

They've been using the SD40s on the TC branch since they got them last spring.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby Super Chief » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:37 am

Thanks SD80MAC, seems like overkill for power but it is what it is.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby chapmaja » Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:54 am

Super Chief wrote:Thanks SD80MAC, seems like overkill for power but it is what it is.


I think it depends on what power is available for them. Also, it might be that they are thinking 2 SD40-2's will accomplish the same work as one of the GP's. Unfortunately that may also include getting stuck.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby NS3322 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:01 pm

Super Chief wrote:I see SRI is using LV 126 up north for trips out of Kalkaska in April. Would think 1225 is still restricted to south of Cadillac?


Has the #1225 ever visited TC? Or have the tracks always been that poor?
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby Saturnalia » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:06 pm

NS3322 wrote:
Super Chief wrote:I see SRI is using LV 126 up north for trips out of Kalkaska in April. Would think 1225 is still restricted to south of Cadillac?


Has the #1225 ever visited TC? Or have the tracks always been that poor?

Not really based on track conditions. The Manistee River Bridge is not rated to handle the 1225's weight.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby Standard Railfan » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:15 pm

Saturnalia wrote:Not really based on track conditions. The Manistee River Bridge is not rated to handle the 1225's weight.


I am not convinced that the Manisree river bridge is the constraint, the PRR had severe restrictions on locomotive weights north of Grand Rapids. That being said there is photographic evidence of Baldwin DR-12-8 (Centipede) running in pairs on the Northern Arrow to Mackinaw City.

One DR-12-8 weighs about 600,000 lbs. A pair would be about 1,200,000 lbs. The 1225 with tender is about 800,000 lbs. I didn’t calculate the axle loading, but there can’t be much difference.

The Traverse City branch historically was both weight and speed restricted. I can not locate the timetable copy at the moment but I recall reading that the speed limit for passenger trains on the branch was 10 mph prior to the 1950s. I assume the the line was lightly built and never upgraded. The appearance of the remaking line north of the tunnels on Keystone Road would support this theory.
Some others on this board may have first hand knowledge, but my understanding is that the TC branch has always been a marginal line.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby Saturnalia » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:22 pm

Standard Railfan wrote:
Saturnalia wrote:Not really based on track conditions. The Manistee River Bridge is not rated to handle the 1225's weight.


I am not convinced that the Manisree river bridge is the constraint, the PRR had severe restrictions on locomotive weights north of Grand Rapids.

I should have quantified: that is the consensus. Many people (including some who'd be considered reliable sources) have said the above over the years and I've never seen or heard anybody refute the claim. Nobody has ever produced a "the bridge weight limit is blank" or made any other moves to quantify it.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby kenN » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:27 pm

I'd love to see a picture of the Centipedes on the North end. I know that the PRR M-class 4-8-2 and I-class 2-10-0 were too heavy to go north of GR, let alone TC. The lighter USRA N-class 2-10-2s were the biggest steam locos permitted north to Mackinaw; don't know if they could go to TC.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby Super Chief » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:45 pm

Having personally rode over the bridge in one of the Alco-trucked GP-35s, pulling an excursion the bridge has a 10mph speed restriction as you can actually feel it move under you. The crews know not to exceed that. Maybe someone else on this thread knows what that bidge and the US-131 overhead bridge at Fife Lake has for tonnage ratings?
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby JStryker722 » Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:55 am

I was up there this past weekend on a get-a-way and couldn't figure this out even with Google Maps: is Williamsburg end-of-track or is that how trains get into TC?
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby AARR » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:38 pm

Trains arrive in Traverse City from the southeast. The line to Williamsburg goes due east out of Traverse City. The two lines connect near the Traverse City station.
JStryker722 wrote:I was up there this past weekend on a get-a-way and couldn't figure this out even with Google Maps: is Williamsburg end-of-track or is that how trains get into TC?
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby TSB » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:03 pm

Back in TSB days, most trouble with engines at crossings were the result of "grooming" the right-of-way for snowmobiles.

The groomers piled snow over the tracks until it became compacted and ice.

Eight inches or more of ice will skate a loco off the tracks.

Very dangerous for the crews and anyone else that comes near.
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Re: Great Lakes Central 398 Stuck in Snow in Traverse City,

Unread postby Standard Railfan » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:59 pm

kenN wrote:I'd love to see a picture of the Centipedes on the North end. I know that the PRR M-class 4-8-2 and I-class 2-10-0 were too heavy to go north of GR, let alone TC. The lighter USRA N-class 2-10-2s were the biggest steam locos permitted north to Mackinaw; don't know if they could go to TC.


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