Detroit & Mackinac

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Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby rdenman62 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:21 am

I'm sure someone on here can answer this question for me. What were the names of the subdivisions on the Detroit & Mackinac? Wasn't one called the Mackinac sub?
And are they the same now with Lake State as they were with the D & M?
Thanks
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby AARR » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:45 am

I think it was Huron Sub to Alpena and Mackinac Sub to Gaylord. I don't know what original line to Cheboygan was called.
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby rdenman62 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:05 am

Thanks for that info. Was the line from Gaylord to Cheboygan the same sub as the Mackinac? And anyone else know about the line from Cheboygan to Mackinac City?
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby AARR » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:36 am

I believe you are correct that the line through Gaylord and on to Cheboygan then Mackinaw City was considered the Mackinac Sub.
rdenman62 wrote:Was the line from Gaylord to Cheboygan the same sub as the Mackinac? And anyone else know about the line from Cheboygan to Mackinac City?
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby rdenman62 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:48 am

Thanks alot...One more question. The line from Saginaw to Pinconning is that a different sub then Mackinac or Huron?
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby SD80MAC » Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:54 am

rdenman62 wrote:Thanks alot...One more question. The line from Saginaw to Pinconning is that a different sub then Mackinac or Huron?

The D&M never originally went to Saginaw, their line ended in Bay City. Sometime in the 1980s (?) the original D&M from Bay City to Pinconning was abandoned in favor of the parallel former NYC line, so I guess you could consider that part of the Mackinac sub.
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby rdenman62 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:52 am

I did not know that. Thats why I like this site. Learn new things and get questions answered. Thank s everyone
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby OwlCaboose2853 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:55 pm

rdenman62 wrote:I did not know that. Thats why I like this site. Learn new things and get questions answered. Thank s everyone


Detroit and Mackinac Railway, "The Turtle Line"
https://www.american-rails.com/detroit-and-mackinac-railway.html
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby Crow T Robot » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:01 am

Sorry to break in to the thread but are these lines or atleast the right of way owned by the state or were they sold?
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby arty flowers » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:43 am

Ive got a question about the customers that kept the D&M in that part of Michigan. What major customer closures lead to the D&Ms downfall?
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby chapmaja » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:27 am

arty flowers wrote:Ive got a question about the customers that kept the D&M in that part of Michigan. What major customer closures lead to the D&Ms downfall?


This is what I can find from the Michigan Railroad's site nd other sources.

1976 - D&M takes over service of the line from Mackinaw City to Bay City as was previously discussed.

1981 D&M runs from Cheboygan to Big Cut for 30 days then stops. Big Cut was a large gravel pit on the line. It closed when it reached the end of its useful life. The last 30 days were likely the removal of equipment and the last product from the area. The line east to Posen was already OOS by this point, and IIRC the wye accessing the Rogers City Branch had been pulled already. This was the last traffic using the Cheboygan - Big Cut line. The line remains in place however.

1983 - The facility at Calcite stops using rail. The line remained in place until the early 1990's unsued. There may have been a couple small customers as far north as Posen or Hawks, as the line did remain in place until the Lake State era.

1990 - The last revenue trip is made between Cheboygan and Gaylord. The P&G plant in Cheboygan was the last revenue customer on the line and closed earlier in the year.

1991 - The rail between Hawks and Cheboygan is pulled up. This was last used in 1983. I beleive, but can't confirm, the line from Cheboygan to Gaylord was also pulled at this time.

1992- Lake St is formed to take over the D&M.

1995-1997 the Paxton Branch is pulled up running to a quarry west of Alpena. The line still runs from Alpena to Hawks at this time.

2000 the lines north of Alpena Jct are abandoned. There has been minimal traffic on the line since the quarry at Calcite stopped rail service.

The biggest customer on the north end during the 1970's would have been the P&G plant and the quarries. By the late 1980's it was just the P&G plant. When that closed there was no need for the line to remain in place to Cheboygan so it was pulled. I think Cheboygan may have had a couple other minimal customers as well during the 1980's but they amounted to little traffic compared to P&G.

I used to spend parts of the summer in Cheboygan where my grandparents had a house. We would watch the crew switch P&G and the yard in town. I always liked the old Alco's.
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby chapmaja » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:30 am

Crow T Robot wrote:Sorry to break in to the thread but are these lines or atleast the right of way owned by the state or were they sold?


The lines are now part of several trails. You can see them on Google Maps.
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby chapmaja » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:33 am

One more thing about the D&M. They used to have a substantial presence with the gypsum traffic on the north side of Saginaw Bay in places like Alabaster. That traffic also dried up which hurt the railroad as well.
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby AARR » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:39 am

chapmaja detailed it well. Just a few additional notes:
- The P&G plant in Cheboygan shipped up to 100 cars a week of mostly inbound paper (from TX IIRC) but also some outbound diapers (some went to the Super Foods warehouse in Vassar).
- The B52 AFB in Oscoda received a lot of jet fuel (I've never been able to determine how much) but this loss was also a big blow to D&M.
- D&M had a switcher assigned to Tawas to service the three gypsum mines at Turtle, White Rock and Alabaster. White Rock was probably the biggest. Most of the gypsum was shuttled to Port Gypsum on the Alabaster line. Some made its way north to the cement plant in Alpena and the rest south to other cement plants (Dundee used to get some).
- The GP plant in Gaylord (ex-Champion) shipped a lot of cars (mostly outbound plywood but some inbound resin) but starting in the early 80's more outbound loads went out by truck. It closed around 2006.
- In the early to mid 80's G-P opened its resin plant and Weyerhaeuser opened its plywood mill.
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby Steve B » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:17 pm

Gaylord to Cheboygan was torn up in 1994. D&M bought from Penn Central Mackinaw City to Sallings (south side of Gaylord) and the state bought from there south to Kawkalin, with D&M as the operator. For the North Central Trail, did the state ultimately buy the right of way north of Gaylord from the D&M corporate shell, or just lease it? Maybe fiber optic rights remain with the Pinkertons? Though that's probably not a high demand telecom path.
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby AARR » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:29 pm

Rumor was Pinkerton bought the line to Mackinaw City to resell the Cheboygan segment to realestate investors . They weren’t happy when MIGN flaggedout of the 1976 national rate increase and generated substantial ferry traffic . Overnight ferry service jumped from one round trip a week to twice per weekday . D&M had the switching contract for the ferry even though MIGN got most of the traffic .
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Re: Detroit & Mackinac

Unread postby LSRC » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:10 am

arty flowers wrote:Ive got a question about the customers that kept the D&M in that part of Michigan. What major customer closures lead to the D&Ms downfall?


Lack of traffic was not the downfall of the D&M. The sale of the D&M to LSRC was done to bust the union.
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