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You may have to cross the border, or go to Illinois, to see the lighted version of the CP Holiday train this year:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/ ... 023821002/

I wonder if the suggestion to operate through Michigan without lights came from Norfolk Southern? After all, if there are issues with safety or security, NS would bear most of the costs and responsibility. It may not be entirely CP's call. I have never heard of a single instance in which the holiday train was damaged or involved in an accident while running on NS trackage rights or on CP itself.

I really wish CP and NS would partner on this. The train's whole purpose is to benefit charity...

Glad I caught it last year, what a disappointment!

CR900945 wrote:I wonder if the suggestion to operate through Michigan without lights came from Norfolk Southern? After all, if there are issues with safety or security, NS would bear most of the costs and responsibility. It may not be entirely CP's call. I have never heard of a single instance in which the holiday train was damaged or involved in an accident while running on NS trackage rights or on CP itself.

The article says someone was told CP would make the decision in Windsor of what to do, so I doubt this has anything to do with NS or CP would have said it.

Would it really have been a good move by CP to throw NS under the train?

Why would CP turn the lights out? To save money? Or has the crowd become full of people doing stupid things next to the tracks?
I suspect the latter and I wouldn't blame NS about being leery of the liability issue.

In pervious years the crowds were "ok" but starting two years ago or so it became nuts, and the crowds grew. With other trains running during the window, any time the gates would go down people would stir and it was just hazardous all around. The first time I saw the train, it was enjoyable. We were at Milan and there were around 40 people or so, and you could park. The last two years it is comparable to a sports tailgate.. people all over the place, no parking, people walking on the tracks at milan. Even going well west of Milan, there were 10 cars at rural country crossings. It really isn't fun to watch anymore, not even counting people talking or crowding the shot. There's too many people there too early, with people parking at 6pm in Milan for a 10pm train roll through. Combine that with CP running at higher speeds through Milan and it just was not as much fun.

Information about the holiday train has been published in the newspaper and all over social media.

Operation lifesaver set up their booth in Allen Park last year to hand out safety info.

The 844 struck a photographer in daylight and clear weather. Safety concerns aren't unfounded. We're a generation plus into people who expect the world to confirm to them. If they are deciding in Windsor it sounds like NS and CP are negotiating the particulars. I wouldn't be surprised if NS would require CP to indemnify NS in the event of an accident.

Perhaps this is all just a bluff to reduce crowd numbers???

Although they are running on NS tracks, there is clearly a demand for a stop in Southeastern Michigan. Remember it is for charity!
Perhaps when Ford makes MC Station more "presentable" they could make a stop there?

CP's map of the Holiday Train routes doesn't show the segment from Windsor to Chicago.

The train has raised $11M since 1999. CP has probably spent more than that. The trains purpose is to generate local charitable contributions and of course some public relations in communities served by CP. The charitable budget at CP certainly has a limit. So if they expand their stops (and costs) why on the NS instead of their own territory?

They have always ferried it on the line to Butler, always goes thru Elkhart at 2-3 am. They restock in Bensenville for the Wisconsin and Minnesota runs. Ususlly 2-3 days in Bensenville for this plus preformers get a break as it is totally recrewed with people and supplies.

I received this statement from CP:

CP Holiday Train wrote:Thank you for your interest in the CP Holiday Train. For rail security and safety reasons we may turn our lights off through this region. We will not provide details on the timing or route as the train moves between Windsor and Chicago, as there are no stops and these are not CP-owned tracks. Please help us have a safe journey by staying off railroad property, which includes the right-of-way, which can extend approximately 50 feet from either side of the track. Accessing railroad property is not only dangerous, but illegal. We appreciate your support of the Holiday Train and encourage you to donate to your local food shelf/bank this holiday season if possible.

CP Holiday Train wrote:We will not provide details on the timing or route as the train moves between Windsor and Chicago, as there are no stops and these are not CP-owned tracks.

Have they in the past?

Seems pretty clear why they want to leave the lights off. Can you blame them?

It has just got too crazy. People stand at the edge of the ties and it is a big hazard and people are "DIRTY' All the trash at the Thunderbowl parking lot. The best view of the train is to be 25-40 feet away from the tracks to view the whole train.
Hate to see "lights out" but " we have meet the enemy and it is us".

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 1106236112

So much trespassing happens when CP's jingle bell train goes through that NS probably just had enough of it. Case in point.

This is so disappointing. Although the crowds at Intercity Baptist and John Riel Park in AP are large, they are fairly respectful, though I have seen people on the tracks at the diamond for the last two years. Couple the safety with the liability and bye bye Holiday Train. Such a shame.

I have to admit one highlight for me last year was watching two people at John Riel Park who decided they were going to cut through the brush and go stand on the tracks. What they didn't know is that there is a fairly deep drainage ditch between the park and the tracks. I probably could have said something instead of just watching them step into the brush, knowing what was about to happen...

- Carsten in Allen Park

Good for you.

Also green rear lights are not up to par with FRA

US Holiday Train has CP 2246 this year.