End of an Era - Amtrak P42
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End of an Era - Amtrak P42
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Re: End of an Era
Finally, any report what trains they will start running on.
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Re: End of an Era
Nothing official but it appears 4604 may be trailing on the 350/355 turn.GTW wrote:Finally, any report what trains they will start running on.
the contents of the above post are my opinion and mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.
Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
I remember wanting to see a Charger so bad last year, but ironically I have ridden behind more Chargers than P42s this year .
Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
I know it's what's on the inside that counts, but man is that face ugly.
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
Update on the 350/355 turn rumor: definitely false. Amtrak 26 led 350 east today with no trailing unit.
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
It was reported earlier on FB that the test train in Jackson has Chargers on it....
I can just imagine what winter is gonna do to these p.o.s....inside and outside
I can just imagine what winter is gonna do to these p.o.s....inside and outside
Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
You don't like them?Buster Manning wrote:I can just imagine what winter is gonna do to these p.o.s....inside and outside
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
I don't follow railfan groups on Facebook. At the time it was too much drama and now with those companies as potential employers I've decided to permanently stay away.Buster Manning wrote:It was reported earlier on FB that the test train in Jackson has Chargers on it....
I can just imagine what winter is gonna do to these p.o.s....inside and outside
I have no first-hand experience with the engines, but from what I understand, the large vent at the rear tends to accumulate snow and ice in the winter. Not really sure how Siemens and IDOT missed that one.NS3322 wrote:You don't like them?Buster Manning wrote:I can just imagine what winter is gonna do to these p.o.s....inside and outside
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
Nope.....the design team obviously didn't have a loco engineer on it for input
even less side vision than a P42--not good considering how many grade crossing we go over
Too much exposure to the front of the loco concerning the HEP cables
can't walk thru the loco when it is running
can't use the back end for backup moves
need air to start the engine...no air in the tanks=no start
engine needs HEP to run most functions on it....no HEP=no air compressor= better be putting hand brakes on equipment if something happens and someone has to go in between account of air bleeding off
no power braking
no idea how well the radiator room fares during winter with that open side
only 2 seats in the cab
only good thing I've heard from guys who have run them already is that they accelerate well
It's too bad the states were in such a hurry to buy something, especially an unproven locomotive...woulda like to have seen a MP36 or 40...they seem to be doing ok on Metra and GO with them
even less side vision than a P42--not good considering how many grade crossing we go over
Too much exposure to the front of the loco concerning the HEP cables
can't walk thru the loco when it is running
can't use the back end for backup moves
need air to start the engine...no air in the tanks=no start
engine needs HEP to run most functions on it....no HEP=no air compressor= better be putting hand brakes on equipment if something happens and someone has to go in between account of air bleeding off
no power braking
no idea how well the radiator room fares during winter with that open side
only 2 seats in the cab
only good thing I've heard from guys who have run them already is that they accelerate well
It's too bad the states were in such a hurry to buy something, especially an unproven locomotive...woulda like to have seen a MP36 or 40...they seem to be doing ok on Metra and GO with them
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
Based on last winter, there weren't any widespread issues with the open grills, at least that I heard of.
I got further clarification on the design, and in fact the idea with the cooling is that air is sucked into the stop, and blown out those side vents. Because it is positive pressure, little if any snow or rain accumulates in the cooling segment of the engine - and the components in there has some degree of weather resistance.
Everything I've heard echos the thought that the cabs in particular were not designed with any crew input: desktop controls, only two seats, and nothing for side or rear visibility. And they don't like hitting trees, as the crews of the Pere Marquette have figured out.
Ultimately no design is perfect, and we're still in the shake-down process for these units. Hopefully they can retrofit some of the issues that have cropped up. Think the bolt-on nose for the P42s, the operational solution to the P42 traction motor in the snow issue, insulating piping under some of the Amfleets - or am I thinking of the Horizons?
Ultimately, we ought to compare them to the F40s and P42s. Each has their strengths, but all have their relative weaknesses. The F40s were/are extremely loud beasts, albeit reliable. P42s have been extremely reliable on a high-mileage demand, minimalist maintenance regime for 20 years. These are the yardsticks to use as we progress forward!
I got further clarification on the design, and in fact the idea with the cooling is that air is sucked into the stop, and blown out those side vents. Because it is positive pressure, little if any snow or rain accumulates in the cooling segment of the engine - and the components in there has some degree of weather resistance.
Everything I've heard echos the thought that the cabs in particular were not designed with any crew input: desktop controls, only two seats, and nothing for side or rear visibility. And they don't like hitting trees, as the crews of the Pere Marquette have figured out.
Ultimately no design is perfect, and we're still in the shake-down process for these units. Hopefully they can retrofit some of the issues that have cropped up. Think the bolt-on nose for the P42s, the operational solution to the P42 traction motor in the snow issue, insulating piping under some of the Amfleets - or am I thinking of the Horizons?
Ultimately, we ought to compare them to the F40s and P42s. Each has their strengths, but all have their relative weaknesses. The F40s were/are extremely loud beasts, albeit reliable. P42s have been extremely reliable on a high-mileage demand, minimalist maintenance regime for 20 years. These are the yardsticks to use as we progress forward!
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
From what I understand, the lack of side vision aims to improve safety, and seeing how that cascades charger and its ACS cousins held up in their respective incidents, I'd say they've proven themselves there.Buster Manning wrote:Nope.....the design team obviously didn't have a loco engineer on it for input
even less side vision than a P42--not good considering how many grade crossing we go over
Too much exposure to the front of the loco concerning the HEP cables
can't walk thru the loco when it is running
can't use the back end for backup moves
need air to start the engine...no air in the tanks=no start
engine needs HEP to run most functions on it....no HEP=no air compressor= better be putting hand brakes on equipment if something happens and someone has to go in between account of air bleeding off
no power braking
no idea how well the radiator room fares during winter with that open side
only 2 seats in the cab
only good thing I've heard from guys who have run them already is that they accelerate well
It's too bad the states were in such a hurry to buy something, especially an unproven locomotive...woulda like to have seen a MP36 or 40...they seem to be doing ok on Metra and GO with them
As the elf said, I'm sure they're going to make adjustments to some of the stupid quirks over time, like not being able to fully blow the horn under 3mph, HEP bull, etc. In regards to the power braking, Amtrak is either trying to phase out power braking for real this time (I've heard unconfirmed rumors that they don't train new engineers on power braking now), or it's just going to be fixed eventually. The P42s were the same way when they were new.
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
I think they got those winter issues sorted out by the units they ran on the PM last winter.
As for POS, what other choice is there for new passenger power? The engine is based on the Euro design. A purpose designed and built passenger unit for North America is probably going to be priced way out of reach. What goes on the Euro networks for crew compartment certainly is different than what goes here in North America.
I get the idea from reading that the P42 isn't really a candidate for rebuilding. Seems like the choice is between 2 poor alternatives.
As for POS, what other choice is there for new passenger power? The engine is based on the Euro design. A purpose designed and built passenger unit for North America is probably going to be priced way out of reach. What goes on the Euro networks for crew compartment certainly is different than what goes here in North America.
I get the idea from reading that the P42 isn't really a candidate for rebuilding. Seems like the choice is between 2 poor alternatives.
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
Well if you want to include the EMD F125, that makes 2 poor alternatives and a garbage fire to choose fromDaveO wrote:Seems like the choice is between 2 poor alternatives.
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.
Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
ThreeSchteinkuh wrote:Well if you want to include the EMD F125, that makes 2 poor alternatives and a garbage fire to choose fromDaveO wrote:Seems like the choice is between 2 poor alternatives.
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
Schteinkuh wrote:Well if you want to include the EMD F125, that makes 2 poor alternatives and a garbage fire to choose fromDaveO wrote:Seems like the choice is between 2 poor alternatives.
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
I don't think Cat is going to survive long enough to build F125s for anyone but Metrolink. Their top executives have gone year after year blaming their woes on everybody else. If they want to place blame, they need to start with themselves.
The Motive Power MP54AC should be in there. But from what I've seen, they seem to be behind on delivery to Go Transit.
I think Siemens right now is the only manufacturer that can probably deliver a product reliably. And I hear you, that might not be a good thing.
I guess future procurement of locomotives and rolling stock are going to need to take in consideration about whether or not the manufacturer can stay in business.
The Motive Power MP54AC should be in there. But from what I've seen, they seem to be behind on delivery to Go Transit.
I think Siemens right now is the only manufacturer that can probably deliver a product reliably. And I hear you, that might not be a good thing.
I guess future procurement of locomotives and rolling stock are going to need to take in consideration about whether or not the manufacturer can stay in business.
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Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
I have also heard rumors of GE/Wabtec considering entering the market now that they're merged. Anyone else hear that?
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.
Re: End of an Era - Amtrak P42
While thinking about this topic I was curious to how long other power on Amtrak lasted. For reference here's a look at the diesel locomtives Amtrak has mainly relied on over the years.
-F7A: built 1953, traded in 1976 --> 23 years**
-SDP40F: built 1973, traded in 1987 --> 14 years
-F40PH: built 1976, had Motors until 1999/ the early 2000's --> 24 years
-P32-8: built 1991, in service --> 27 years plus
-P42: built 1996, in service--> 22 years plus
-F59PHi: built 1998, being sold/ phased out --> 20 years (plus?)
**1953 was a common build year for Amtrak F7A's, exact years vary
-F7A: built 1953, traded in 1976 --> 23 years**
-SDP40F: built 1973, traded in 1987 --> 14 years
-F40PH: built 1976, had Motors until 1999/ the early 2000's --> 24 years
-P32-8: built 1991, in service --> 27 years plus
-P42: built 1996, in service--> 22 years plus
-F59PHi: built 1998, being sold/ phased out --> 20 years (plus?)
**1953 was a common build year for Amtrak F7A's, exact years vary
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