Lake State Railway

[XaVier22]

What frequencies does the Tawas yard, Alpena yard, and on the road between them use? I just need the ones for VHF FMN.

Thank-You

[chapmaja]

Tawas doesn't have a yard anymore does it. I know there used to be a yard, but that was torn out for Walmart to be built. I think the yard became unneeded when the gypsum traffic disappeared from the line.

My question is why did the gypsum traffic disappear. Looking at Google Maps, National Gypsum still have a place northwest of Tawas, but the tracks have been cut from the main and possibly removed. The Alabaster Branch is still in place, but looks like it is all storage now. The loadouts still appear in Lake Huron, but rail access to them no longer exists.

When was the last time traffic moved on the Alabaster Branch (other than car storage)?

[AARR]

I don't know the frequencies

You are correct, the Tawas Yard is gone when Walmart built and the track was looped around it.

Gypsum from the National Gypsum pit in White Rock was last shipped by rail around 2006. Most of it went to Port Gypsum on the Alabaster Branch (where the underground conveyor loads ships). D&M/LSRC used to short haul 20-30 car blocks between the pit and Port Gypsum dumping shed. Now all by truck.

I think the drywall plant south of National City has done everything by truck (inbound gypsum and outbound drywall) since the 1980's.

Does MI Gypsum near Turtle still mine? Last I heard Sargent was operating this pit but the spur may have been disconnected.

US Gypsum in Alabaster closed around 2006 when the Tram had a major breakdown and the cost to repair was considered to high because there were only about 10 years reserves left.

Tawas doesn't have a yard anymore does it. I know there used to be a yard, but that was torn out for Walmart to be built. I think the yard became unneeded when the gypsum traffic disappeared from the line.

My question is why did the gypsum traffic disappear. Looking at Google Maps, National Gypsum still have a place northwest of Tawas, but the tracks have been cut from the main and possibly removed. The Alabaster Branch is still in place, but looks like it is all storage now. The loadouts still appear in Lake Huron, but rail access to them no longer exists.

When was the last time traffic moved on the Alabaster Branch (other than car storage)?

[Michael]

What frequencies does the Tawas yard, Alpena yard, and on the road between them use? I just need the ones for VHF FMN.

Thank-You

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=1555

Lake State Railway

Frequency License Type Alpha Tag Description Mode
153.06500 WQRS530 RM Ros Yard Roscommon Yard DMR
154.50500 WQRS530 RM ALP Yard Alpena Yard DMR
160.26000 WQEB592 BM 10 Road FMN
160.35000 WPEN914 BM 16 East Tawas Yard FMN
160.65000 WPEN914 RM 36/92 Saginaw Yard FMN
160.71000 WQRS530 BM 40 Ops NXDN
160.74000 WQRS530 RM 42/96 Hale (Iosco County) NXDN
160.98000 WQEB592 BM 58 Saginaw Yard FMN
161.28000 WPEN914 BM 78 Alpena Yard FMN
161.31000 WPEN914 BM 80 Road FMN
161.52000 WQRS530 BM 94 Ops NXDN
161.55000 WQRS530 BM 96 Ops NXDN

[chapmaja]

Which was US Gypsum and which was Port Gypsum? I know one branched off near the north end of the spur and the other was at the south end, but I don't recall which was which.

I am a little surprised the outbound gypsum would be handled by truck as that isn't a light weight product. I would think the weight would lend itself to rail transport over truck transport. I wonder if the operations and management of the D&M may have played a part as well. From what I recall, the D&M wasn't in the greatest financial shape in the late 1980's into the early 1990's. Maybe that would have had an impact on rail use.

I don't know the frequencies

You are correct, the Tawas Yard is gone when Walmart built and the track was looped around it.

Gypsum from the National Gypsum pit in White Rock was last shipped by rail around 2006. Most of it went to Port Gypsum on the Alabaster Branch (where the underground conveyor loads ships). D&M/LSRC used to short haul 20-30 car blocks between the pit and Port Gypsum dumping shed. Now all by truck.

I think the drywall plant south of National City has done everything by truck (inbound gypsum and outbound drywall) since the 1980's.

Does MI Gypsum near Turtle still mine? Last I heard Sargent was operating this pit but the spur may have been disconnected.

US Gypsum in Alabaster closed around 2006 when the Tram had a major breakdown and the cost to repair was considered to high because there were only about 10 years reserves left.

[SD80MAC]

D&M (and the Lake State for most of the 90s and early 2000s) were very adept at running off business and pissing off their customer base. Pinkerton Jr. was a slime ball who had no business running a railroad. You can thank him for the poor D&M/LSRC track conditions that are still extant today, along with the abandonment of everything north of Gaylord and Alpena (and Muskegon-Penn Jct and Ioina-Owosso for that matter).

[chapmaja]

D&M (and the Lake State for most of the 90s and early 2000s) were very adept at running off business and pissing off their customer base. Pinkerton Jr. was a slime ball who had no business running a railroad. You can thank him for the poor D&M/LSRC track conditions that are still extant today, along with the abandonment of everything north of Gaylord and Alpena (and Muskegon-Penn Jct and Ioina-Owosso for that matter).

I know the loss of the plant in Cheboygan was a big blow to the railroads operations north of Gaylord. How much of the loss of the other business north of Alpena and Gaylord was the result of changing market conditions and how much was the result of the D&M management. I know the D&M wasted no time pulling the tracks north of Gaylord once the plant closed in Cheboygan (My grandfather used to have a place on Lake Huron, so we would go watch the D&M switch the plant when we were in town).

As for the Penn Jct -Muskegon and Ionia-Owosso sections. I think there was a reason these got pulled up. There was not enough through traffic to successfully operate the line. The funny thing is that in today's railroad universe, having them connected would likely be a very good thing. Had the tracks not been pulled up, the traffic from Muskegon would have an eastern gateway to railroads other than CSX from Muskegon (did CSX lease or sell the Muskegon area tracks). Access from the west would allow for the removal of the swing bridge in Grand Haven as well, as it would be unnecessary to have two points of access to Muskegon.

I had heard that someone (Lowes maybe) was looking at a distribution center in St. John's and the CMGN yanked the tracks and the company built elsewhere.

Its too bad we lose trackage because of poor management and business dealings with companies. I would love to see 1225 going across the center of the state from Owosso to Grand Rapids and Muskegon. Can you imagine the shocked look on peoples faces when a stream engine would be crossing the intersections in GR and Muskegon.

[SW]

Does MI Gypsum near Turtle still mine? Last I heard Sargent was operating this pit but the spur may have been disconnected

I drove by there last summer and the spur is indeed disconnected. Plant appeared to be operational.

[AARR]

Port Gypsum is about a mile south of Alabaster Jct. There's a spur that branches off the Branch to a dumping shed that was gravity fed IIRC.

US Gypsum is/was at the end of the Alabaster Branch.

Which was US Gypsum and which was Port Gypsum? I know one branched off near the north end of the spur and the other was at the south end, but I don't recall which was which.

[AARR]

IIRC LSRC left the tracks to Cheboygan for about 3-4 years after the plant closed. Plant closed around 1990 and tracks were removed around 1994. Anyone feel free to correct me if these dates are wrong.

Central Michigan Lumber had a distribution center in St. Johns and received up to 600 cars annually. But I don't know if they moved to Lansing then CMGN abandoned the line or if CMGN abandoned the line first then CML moved to Lansing.

I know the D&M wasted no time pulling the tracks north of Gaylord once the plant closed in Cheboygan (My grandfather used to have a place on Lake Huron, so we would go watch the D&M switch the plant when we were in town).

I had heard that someone (Lowes maybe) was looking at a distribution center in St. John's and the CMGN yanked the tracks and the company built elsewhere.

[Steve B]

Procter & Gamble closed the Cheboygan plant in Oct. 1990. I don't know when D&M filed for abandonment of Gaylord-Cheboygan, but the ICC decided on Feb. 25, 1992 to allow it. Lake State began operations on Feb. 18, 1992. I can't imagine that Jim George and Richard Van Buskirk (the former D&M vice presidents who started Lake State) expressed any interest in acquiring north of Gaylord.

Maybe the delay in removing the line was because talks to reopen the paper mill heated up sometime after D&M filed to abandon? Or, maybe D&M was just waiting for scrap steel prices to rise. Great Lakes Tissue reopened it in fall 1993. I assume that the D&M, by now just a real estate company, learned that Great Lakes Tissue would use trucks only, and decided to not hold onto the line any more. Scrap value for 47 miles of track must have outweighed the vague possibility that Great Lakes Tissue would change its mind. I remember seeing the tracks being removed by Mullett Lake in June 1994.

I know that the Surface Transportation Board requires railroads to issue a "notice of consummation of abandonment" within a certain period after abandonment permission is granted, or else the permission expires. Did the ICC have a similar rule?

I've attached the abandonment decision. As with all such notices, it would be much more interesting to read D&M's initial filing and stating of its case.

[hoborich]

Frequency License Type Alpha Tag Description Mode
153.06500 WQRS530 RM Ros Yard Roscommon Yard DMR
154.50500 WQRS530 RM ALP Yard Alpena Yard DMR

Where is this Roscommon yard? Perhaps I missed it. It appears there is just a single track through Roscommon.

[Michael]

It appears there is just a single track through Roscommon.

I just checked Google Maps and it looks like there is a siding right in town. Maybe 1500 feet?

[hoborich]

There's a siding that starts just west of town. Hardly a yard. Empty most of the time. Hard to believe they have a separate radio frequency for that rarely used siding.

[AARR]

My thoughts exactly. When did a stub ended spur or even a single passing siding become a yard? Doesn't there have to be at least a main line, passing siding and 3rd track to be considered a yard .

There's a siding that starts just west of town. Hardly a yard. Empty most of the time. Hard to believe they have a separate radio frequency for that rarely used siding.

[MiRailProductions]

My thoughts exactly. When did a stub ended spur or even a single passing siding become a yard? Doesn't there have to be at least a main line, passing siding and 3rd track to be considered a yard .

There's a siding that starts just west of town. Hardly a yard. Empty most of the time. Hard to believe they have a separate radio frequency for that rarely used siding.

There may have been a yard there at one point in time. Boardman Yard in Traverse City on the GLC is just that; it used to hold 8 tracks IIRC but right now it's a passing track with an abandoned wye.

[Doktor No]

RR Freqs are in the 160.*** to 161.*** range. Looking at my paper Lake States uses 160.350 AAR Freq 16...Limited Use. 161.280 AAR channel 82 for Administration and for general train use they have 161.310 AAR channel 80. I believe, with my limited radio knowledge..are repeater frequencies...or something.

[Jim_c]

A repeater is possible but not likely. If you are wondering about DMR, it is a digital audio protocol

[hoborich]

It looks like the freq 153.065 is used for prospecting operations. No big deal. I just noticed it and it stuck out.

Petroleum Radio Service
Prospecting for, producing, collecting, refining and/or transporting by pipeline, petroleum products:
25.021 33.18 48.60 49.06 153.335 158.1603 451.275
25.042 33.20 48.62 49.08 150.9802 153.350 158.1753 451.375
25.061 33.22 48.64 49.10 153.365 158.2053 451.425
25.082 33.24 48.66 49.12 153.035 153.380 158.2203 451.475
25.101 33.26 48.68 49.14 153.050 153.395 158.2353 451.525
25.12 33.28 48.70 49.16 153.065 153.425 158.2653 451.550
25.141 33.30 48.72 49.18 153.080 153.4403 158.280 451.575
25.16 33.32 48.74 49.20 153.095 153.455 158.295 451.600
25.181 33.34 48.76 49.22 153.110 153.485 158.310 451.625
25.20 33.36 48.78 49.24 153.125 153.5003 158.2443 451.650
25.22 33.38 48.80 49.26 153.140 153.515 158.370 451.675
25.24 48.82 49.28 153.155 153.545 158.4153 451.700
25.26 36.252 48.84 49.30 153.170 153.5603 158.430 451.750
25.28 48.86 49.32 153.185 153.575 158.4452
25.30 41.712 48.88 49.34 153.200 153.605 158.4802 454.0002
25.32 48.90 49.36 153.215 153.6203