Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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~Z~
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Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by ~Z~ »

Photograph those coal loads to West Olive and other plants while you can:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/en ... 351455002/
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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20 years, might as well be an eon. I give them props to some extent, but in the end it is an economic decision rather than a political feel-good one. Coal prices are outmatched by Natural Gas right now and as long as fracking remains legal, then it will likely remain so as we're literally out the ears with the stuff right now.

JH Campbell is probably the last plant to close, seeing as how they're just completing upgrades to make the plant one of the cleanest in the country. If any plant(s) remain beyond their target, it'll probably be Campbell, but we'll see in time.

As far as politics goes, while everybody is breathing easy right now as Trump has halted and in fact been reversing the scourge of over-regulation, the other party remains fixated on such limits, and ultimately, the tide will turn again and the regulatory state will return, because that's how the left justifies its existence.
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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I suspect timed with the expected life of the existing facilities. In the current regulatory environment why take the multi-billion multi-year risk building a new coal plant. It will be an change in life style for the U.S.
Saturnalia wrote:...because that's how the left justifies its existence.
The price for living in a democratic society, people with differing views have a voice too. I worked in China in the 90's where the average guy was genuinely afraid to talk politics or about the government at all. We're better off. And while I favor conservative politics the right prove time and again they can not be left to their own devices.

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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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Saturnalia wrote: regulatory state will return, because that's how the left justifies its existence.
Great job bringing politics into this thread...
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Doktor No
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by Doktor No »

MiRailProductions wrote:
Saturnalia wrote: regulatory state will return, because that's how the left justifies its existence.
Great job bringing politics into this thread...
Perhaps he prefers a dictatorship.
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by MiRailProductions »

Doktor No wrote:
MiRailProductions wrote:
Saturnalia wrote: regulatory state will return, because that's how the left justifies its existence.
Great job bringing politics into this thread...
Perhaps he prefers a dictatorship.
I didn't mean to imply that... :oops:
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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Speaking of politics, Trump is going to make coal great again. Seriously. He said so, so it must be true. :lol:
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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What will happen if the way is found to make coal clean burning?

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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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Clean burning coal sounds like a clean burning cigarette. Or am I comparing apples to oranges? Do we consider a vape pen a clean burning cigarette?

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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

The article doesn't say DTE is phasing out coal by 2040, just Consumer's. Date's plan supposedly goes through 2050.

Interesting quote at the end about solar and wind being free. I have yet to find a solar panel whose manufacturing process doesn't do a ton of damage to the environment. But, since things of that nature aren't made in this country, it's all good, right?
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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JoJames wrote:What will happen if the way is found to make coal clean burning?
That is what I am wondering. Technology advances daily and it will soon come to pass that with the ability to make the smokestacks of coal fired power plants basically pollutant free don't discount it just yet. Wind and solar are much more expensive. You want to depend on them and their being subject to the whims of weather just keep wishing for coal to go away. Whatcha you gonna do in the winter when the wind isn't isn't blowing and there is heavy cloud cover that prevents solar panels from producing electricity?
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by Doktor No »

None of you have brought up the new developments in storage technology...that is only going to get better and better.
As for clean coal? The price to make it clean make it more price challenged compared to Natural Gas. NG is the next wave thats already overtaking us. Storage will be the wave right behind it.
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

Regardless of the solution to which fuel to use, the first solution is to reduce the amount of electrictity demanded. Turn off lights if not in room, unplug chargers when not being used, motion sensor lights, ect. It does not make sense to attempt to switch to a cleaner fuel at the current amount of unnecessary usage.

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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by Ben Higdon »

GreatLakesRailfan wrote:Interesting quote at the end about solar and wind being free. I have yet to find a solar panel whose manufacturing process doesn't do a ton of damage to the environment. But, since things of that nature aren't made in this country, it's all good, right?
I believe the point was wind and solar have an advantage over the long-term in that they are not subject to the cost fluctuations of the fossil fuels themselves. Eventually natural gas won't be so cheap and plentiful.

I support the development of renewable energy sources but tearing down every coal fired powerplant is short sighted. At some point, which maybe we've already passed, enough coal plants will be torn down that when the cost of natural gas eventually increases enough relative to coal we'll start building coal power plants again. There's too much money to be made and plenty of people that don't give a rip about the environment that we'll never leave all that coal in the ground without digging it up and burning it off.

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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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Curb Your Enthusiasm.

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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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From http://oilprice.com The price of solar modules continues to fall, having dropped more then 40% since 2012. The average module price in the US stood at about $1.15 a watt in 2012, a figure that declined to $.72 a watt by 2016, according to the EIA.
By the end of 2017 the spot price of monocrystallate solar modules fell to $.45 cents a watt.
Now one may be inclined to think that the present administration solar panel tarriffs may bring this to a halt (gee, I wonder why he did that? Murray Coal? could be wabbitt) the first 2.5 gigawatts of solar has no tariff and the slow pace of Washington has allowed 5.5 gigs of panels to already be imported into the US from China, Mexico and Canada.
Imagine that? Power from panels laying in the sun. What will they think of next...why batteries to take the excess into storage for those less the wonderfull Michigan days and also for those dark dark nights.
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by SousaKerry »

Natural Gas my a$$...
What smells like lube oil and diesel.... Oh wait it's just my "Locomotive Breath"

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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

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SousaKerry wrote:Natural Gas my a$$...
Run a pipe up there and light it off!
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by hoborich »

Coal will be back, but it may be a while. Power plants use an enormous amount of nat gas. Add to that the trucks and locomotives switching over to natural gas/LNG and home and commercial building heating in the winter, and the current surplus will eventually dry up. There is currently a surplus of natural gas, but with the increased use of it, it will not be able to keep up with the rapidly growing demand.
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Re: Consumers/DTE to be off coal by 2040

Unread post by Doktor No »

They said that about oil to Rich. Remember 1973? Get the weekly summary from oilprice.com. Major discoveries all the time...natural gas discovery off of Israel/Lebanon/Egypt could supply Europe for many years to come. Discoveries are what's driving the price down and keeping it down.
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