Plymouth city CSX road blocking email

[Sean N]

The City of Plymouth has been receiving numerous complaints related to CSX Railroad blocking crossings for extended periods of time.  This would include today's blockage of a crossing for more than six hours at the Mill Street South Crossing.   We have also learned that CSX Railroad has updated their 1-877-Tell CSX phone number to no longer accept calls about trains blocking crossings. 
CSX Railroad Trains are regulated by the Federal Government and the local units of government or the City have no authority over trains or how long they block crossings.  Our best recommendation is to contact your federal legislators and request relief.   To report trains blocking crossings we recommend that you contact all of the following each time there is a train blocking a crossing:
             * Congressman David Trott - 248-528-0711
             * Senator Debbie Stanenow - 313-961-4330
             * Senator Gary Peters - 313-226-6020
             * CSX Railroad Emergency - 1-800-232-0144
                      Extension 1 to report crossing blocked
             * CSX Regional Vice President -
                     Tom Livingston - 708-832-2169
             * Federal Railroad Administration -
                     419-259-7570
Again, all railroad rules and regulations; including how long trains can block a crossing is regulated by the Federal Government and the City has no input into the operations of CSX Railroad.   Persons with questions or concerns about the railroad and railroad safety should contact one or more of the persons listed above.

[MiddleMI]

A CSX Corp. train blocked a Plymouth railroad crossing for nine hours Monday, frustrating residents and local officials, but a company official has assured City Manager Paul Sincock the persistent problem is being addressed.

Sincock received a phone call Tuesday morning from a CSX regional official after numerous complaints surfaced about a train that blocked the crossing at Lilley and Fair, starting shortly after 5 a.m. Monday.

"It was crazy," Sincock said, calling the frustration level "extremely high."

He said it seems as though CSX is serious about addressing an ongoing problem in a city that has seven railroad crossings. He has been told the situation should be resolved in a week to 10 days.

"They're working on it," Sincock said. When asked if he believes CSX is serious, he added, "I think they are."

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/p ... 793705001/

Yeah, okay. Is there not enough demand for Plymouth to seek funds for grade seperations since this has been such a problem for years? Plymouth and Plymouth Township aren't tiny villages in the middle of nowhere.

[NYCMan]

It is all part of Hunter Harrison's "efficiency" improvements. If trains just sit, they do not burn fuel, and not burning fuel saves money, and saving money means an improved operating ratio, and an improved operating ratio means happy shareholders...

The Cities of Plymouth and Westland and Wayne have been in a feud with CSX over blocked crossings for years. Plymouth even went to the extent of having their police arrest engineers. The matter ended up in federal court and CSX lost.

[jggilmore7]

They still run trains through Plymouth??

[~Z~]

Article about some of the blockages; said one was blocked for 9 hours straight on Monday: https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/tra ... n-plymouth

[MiddleMI]

Yep, that's what the article I posted was on.

[~Z~]

Yeah, okay. Is there not enough demand for Plymouth to seek funds for grade seperations since this has been such a problem for years? Plymouth and Plymouth Township aren't tiny villages in the middle of nowhere.

They do have a few grade separations around town, but appears not enough for the town folk. From the diamond, to the west they have Sheldon Rd, south is Ann Arbor Rd, east is Edward Hines Dr, and north is Northville Rd. All of these crossings are within 2 miles of the diamond as well. There are options around the mess, just not as convenient as having a train continue through a crossing, only having to wait a few minutes.

[hoborich]

Why are long trains sitting for 9 hours in town? Am I missing something here?

[MRC_Andrew]

Why are long trains sitting for 9 hours in town? Am I missing something here?

For a few days earlier this month, new signals were put in operation. Each signal from John Hix Rd., north through Plymouth had a flagman and/or switch tender until stuff got sorted out, I guess. Trains were very slow through the area for days. Not sure what exactly the problem is now, but these monster 200+ car trains they've been running can't be helping matters any. Lots of switching and setouts going on, too. With the long trains, all it takes is for one minor thing to go wrong and they end up having to sit, which causes backups, which in turn leads to more and more crossings blocked as trains sit. And sit. And sit. And sit....

[hoborich]

OK, thanks. I didn't think there was much rail traffic through Plymouth these days.

[MiddleMI]

Yeah, okay. Is there not enough demand for Plymouth to seek funds for grade seperations since this has been such a problem for years? Plymouth and Plymouth Township aren't tiny villages in the middle of nowhere.

They do have a few grade separations around town, but appears not enough for the town folk. From the diamond, to the west they have Sheldon Rd, south is Ann Arbor Rd, east is Edward Hines Dr, and north is Northville Rd. All of these crossings are within 2 miles of the diamond as well. There are options around the mess, just not as convenient as having a train continue through a crossing, only having to wait a few minutes.

You're making it sound as if there are other convenient option. There are no immediate east-west accesses to Hines if you're sitting at Mill. There is no reasonable access to Hines south of Mill. You're a little luckier if you're stuck north of Mill as there is direct access to Hines, but that still means going through local streets. There isn't even a frontage road on each side of the tracks if you're trying to turn around.

If you're anywhere in the eastern half of the city, you're struck without some massive detours. This is unacceptable, and the townspeople are not being unreasonable in being pissed off by this.

[Saturnalia]

Time to do what Elkhart, Goshen, South Bend, and the rest all did at one time or another: stop complaining and do something.

There's money out there for grade separation projects. But you aren't going to win any grants or get any help if you don't have a plan.

[~Z~]

You're making it sound as if there are other convenient option. There are no immediate east-west accesses to Hines if you're sitting at Mill. There is no reasonable access to Hines south of Mill. You're a little luckier if you're stuck north of Mill as there is direct access to Hines, but that still means going through local streets. There isn't even a frontage road on each side of the tracks if you're trying to turn around.

If you're anywhere in the eastern half of the city, you're struck without some massive detours. This is unacceptable, and the townspeople are not being unreasonable in being pissed off by this.

If you're sitting at mill, turn around, go 0.7 miles south to Park St, then head back north on Hines. I'd choose that over waiting 9 hours for the train to move.
The townspeople are more than correct though at being pissed off by this. If a train is stopped at a crossing, not moving for over 15 minutes, and this happened daily, I'd be in the same boat. CSX can take trains from GR/Toledo to a spot to swap cars around that's not blocking Plymouth, but it's more efficient in a logistical sense for them to do so at this point. Public image - not so much.

[hoborich]

When I worked at Wixom, I remember the trainmaster going to court frequently to settle tickets for blocking the crossings. We used to switch the Ford plant during shift change right around 4:00, and got tickets from time to time for blocking Wixom road. Sometimes trains setting off and picking up would block Beck or Pontiac Trail for a while. But I know we got tickets now and then.

[GTW6401]

All the problems in Plymouth start up right after CSX make changes in Grand Rapids. The trains blocking crossings for hours are awaiting recrews.

[MiddleMI]

Well, the News or Free Press is reporting this evening that first CSX told them that the trains were awaiting engines from Lansing...and then later told them it was because the train broke down. So, who knows? They need to get thier sh%t together is what we do know.

[Saturnalia]

Well, the News or Free Press is reporting this evening that first CSX told them that the trains were awaiting engines from Lansing...and then later told them it was because the train broke down. So, who knows? They need to get thier sh%t together is what we do know.

Could be that they're waiting for engines from Lansing because the original ones are broken down...

[Doktor No]

Hey NYCMan, CSX won all their court cases in Federal Court including a cease and desist order against the city police. Same in Holland, Michigan. And #2, they can't come onto the property without a warrant. That would get the case thrown out real fast...something about private property rights I think. The courts pretty much said that if said railroads are following federal rules...like stopping for red signals, making pickups and then doing federally mandated brake tests....there is nothing they can do. Again federal law usurps local law every time. Thusly there is no more blocking crossings law...not enforceable.
Not to say its not a PIA and CSX really should find some way to fix this (doubt they really give a rip though).

[Saturnalia]

Not to say its not a PIA and CSX really should find some way to fix this (doubt they really give a rip though).

I'm willing to bet that CSX's local managers see the problem as temporary while schedules are in flux. Once the schedule evens out, then they'll probably be more willing to work on its negative impacts.

Plus, the increased dwell around Plymouth is actually a pretty decent argument for a straight GRP-DET train. No doubt, these delays don't look good internally at CSX. Harrison is known to call up local folks and even bring up dispatcher screens and talk local management through problems in knotty terminals.

The ultimate answer for Plymouth is to stop crying and actually do something about it. Nothing will ever get done if the local "leaders" do nothing but complain. The fastest, quickest and probably cheapest option is for the City of Plymouth to start formulating a plan by talking to MDOT, SEMCOG, the FRA, CSX and the USDOT, among others, to figure out what can be done in terms of improvements, mostly on the topic of overpasses. Back in the day they were able to figure Sheldon Rd out, time for them to do it again.

But I'm sure the local politicians don't care or don't know how to care, so here we are. Being proactive is NOT their strong suit, clearly.

I did get a good chuckle that they've turned off the line for blocked crossings. That's a good one

[Saturnalia]

Just looking at potential candidates for overpasses, here are some initial thoughts/findings about what could possibly be done. Of course the people of Plymouth want the problem solved but they won't want to be a part of it when traffic shifts and construction are part of it, but sometimes the local citizens need to be, to put it a way, "preferentially ignored" to a certain degree to make stuff happen.

Farmer St: This one actually looks pretty good, IMHO. The road rises up to meet the railroad, meaning shorter approaches. Building in the NE corner would probably be a goner, but could also be saved. Intersections with Amelia and Theodore would probably be lost. However I think it's not a bad candidate, overall.

Main St: You'd be buying a LOT of property, most likely. Overpass or underpass, it wouldn't fit in that well without buying up adjacent property, and you're either going to have a wall or a ditch, depending on if the road goes over or under. That being said, communities like Elkhart and Goshen have made these difficult decisions before, and in the long run they mellow out, I think.

Lilley/Ann Arbor Trail: How these didn't get bridges a long time ago, I don't know, but the area is hugely built-up now. Ann Arbor Trail has a slight rise to the tracks, at least, Mill, not so much. Probably would include a total reconstruction of the adjacent intersection. The triangle there would probably be a goner - lots of property there. Unfortunately the area was allowed to be built up before considering increased traffic vs railroad conflicts.

Joy: Probably a good option, the road is level with the tracks, but there isn't a *ton* in the way, so not hugely disruptive.

Haggerty: Looks like tons of room available. Probably not a bad candidate if in the long-term more traffic is foreseen.

Strarkweather/Mill/Holbrook: These three east of the diamond are so close and so built up there isn't much that could be done, but they're also unlikely to be routinely blocked by trains, since they're pretty much in the plant so trains will keep clear while stopped awaiting a signal. Slow speed connections with 10,000+ foot barges suck in any case, but that's what we've got.

Beck Rd: A good candidate given traffic volume, if only they'd done it when the reconstructed it. With the highway there, it'd be a good idea I think, but they'd have to rip a ton of road up, with the adjacent intersection needing a raise.

There's way more to each decision than these basic observations, but there are some choices available. The "elevate everything" card is long since expired...South Bend, Joliet, etc made good of that when they could. But, some decent overpasses would do a lot to allow CSX's operations and the citizens of Plymouth to coexist with much less friction.