CN/CSX Frequencies and My Scanner

[NSSD70ACe]

So in my attempt to see Q384-08 today, I brought my scanner with me on my walk to the CSX crossing on Hagadorn. Unfortunately, about half way to the crossing, 348 rolled through. It occurred to me on my walk back that I did not hear them call Trowbridge, nor have I heard any sort of clear radio chatter at any time while railfanning in Lansing.
I am using the following frequencies for the Lansing area:

160.590 (CN)
160.920 (CN)

The only time I have ever had any sort of transmission come through, it was while I was at the Amtrak station in East Lansing. Everything came over 160.590 and it was either static or extremely garbled. I couldn't even pick up the HBD at MP 219.

I' not sure if it's an issue with my scanner because I can pick up Ingham County's fire dispatch without any issue. The day I went to LNS, I somehow managed to pick up Portage Police and Kalamazoo County Fire in addition to Ingham County, but there was nothing on the railroad channels. My scanner has picked up stuff before from CN. Back when I railfanned in Pavilion I could pick up the DD at MP 155 without any issues, and that was well over two miles from me. I even heard the engineer on 502 one day start complaining because he saw me and my camera. But it's dead silent up here.

Any ideas?


EDIT: I just saw JetLink's post and it appears I have the wrong freq. for CSX. I'm changing it over now.

[CR900945]

I have noticed the same thing in the last year or so with CSX north and west of Plymouth. (Using 160.23 on Radio Shack mobile scanner.) Sometimes you hear nothing, sometimes you get a burst of static followed by a garbled message. Distance is 1 to 3 miles away. Antenna is a fiberglass enclosed Sinclair type railroad/transit antenna. Same results with portable hand-held. However, on CSX, the dispatcher on 161.37 comes in pretty good on same equipment.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

For dispatcher conversation, my handheld scanner and rubber duck antenna are great. But anything else is hit or miss, especially on CN.

[Jetlink]

I don't think CN calls all signals like they do on CSX. I thought I heard that they only call less than clear signals but I'm not even sure of that. Maybe someone else can clear that up. It's harder to hear them if they simply aren't talking as much. Also most portable antennas just don't have the gain a permanent mount does and locomotive radios can be fluky. Some just don't transmit well and antennas get damaged etc.

I can hear the dispatchers on CN at home with a rubber duck antenna and the CN tracks are 19 miles away at the closest point. I have no idea where their base is. I've never heard a locomotive at home though.

[NSSD70ACe]

I was able to pick up Amtrak 364 calling the clear signal last night near Hagadorn, but as usual (for Amtrak anyway), I could barely hear them.

When I get back, I'll turn it on again and maybe I'll hear someone on the Plymouth or maybe the CN dispatchers. I updated the frequencies on my scanner last night and haven't tried them out yet. This is after Amtrak came through.

[cnw8835]

I believe CN crews are supposed to call out signals over the radio if they have an indication that is less than a clear. Someone in the know please correct me if I am wrong.

[cbehr91]

Looking at the FCC database for the Trowbridge area, 160.530 and 160.590 appear to be the two CN frequencies in use in the area.

[Hogger1225]

Also AAR 74, 161.220. The dispatcher makes use of this channel.

[hoborich]

Narrow banding may be partly responsible.

Narrowbanding can have a significant impact on the performance of your FM radio system because it also reduces your Modulation Index. This 0.83 Modulation Index results in a 6 dB decrease in signal to noise and a loss of up to 30% of coverage. ... If the FCC says 3 dB, they are being generous.
Narrowbanding - Advanced Repeater Systems
arsrepeaters.com/Narrowbanding.php

https://www.fcc.gov/general/narrowbanding-overview

[R.E.A.P.E.R.]

I believe CN crews are supposed to call out signals over the radio if they have an indication that is less than a clear. Someone in the know please correct me if I am wrong.

ThWey only call out Approach to a control point, Stop at a control point, or Restricting at a control point. Amtrak has to call out all signals under CN rules because the conductor is not in the cab. You also may hear "No restrictions" from time to time.

[Jim_c]

Narrow banding may be partly responsible.

Narrowbanding can have a significant impact on the performance of your FM radio system because it also reduces your Modulation Index. This 0.83 Modulation Index results in a 6 dB decrease in signal to noise and a loss of up to 30% of coverage. ... If the FCC says 3 dB, they are being generous.
Narrowbanding - Advanced Repeater Systems
arsrepeaters.com/Narrowbanding.php

https://www.fcc.gov/general/narrowbanding-overview

I was thinking the same thing. I get the idea that the FCC wouldn't mind if everyone went digital, despite its inferior performance in high background-noise environments. The radio techs often don't turn up the output audio enough when a system is narrow band. If your scanner has an option for FMN (FM - Narrow) make sure that is in use on the railroad frequencies. Some scanners do "true" narrow band, others just change the audio band width.

[KC8RBK]

I believe CN crews are supposed to call out signals over the radio if they have an indication that is less than a clear. Someone in the know please correct me if I am wrong.

Lately the CN crews have also started calling their restrictions for the next 10 miles on the fives. 195, 205, 215...

[GTW]

Crews on the South Bend Sub. have been calling mile markers that end in five for sometime. I heard Desk 8 will have the first new radio system in service when all the upgrades are finished in that area.

[CR900945]

I think hoborich is on to something here. It seems that the narrow banding issue came up before in some scanning discussions. Some folks thought their radios were worn out or had bad antenna connections.

[NSSD70ACe]

I think hoborich is on to something here. It seems that the narrow banding issue came up before in some scanning discussions. Some folks thought their radios were worn out or had bad antenna connections.

It sounds like this could possibly solve my reception problem. I didn’t bring my manual with me for my scanner; is there a way to do what hobofich suggested on the BC125AT?

Also, in preparing for a “worst-case scenario”, I emailed the guys at DX Engineering and explained the issue. They suggested this antenna:
https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dmn-rh789

Does anyone have this particular antenna?

[cbehr91]

When narrowbanding started I didn't notice a difference in reception. The best BNC handheld antenna I've used for the rail channels is the Smiley Antenna 5/8 Slim Duck. This isn't the first thread I've noticed the OP complaining about reception issues. If you are using the scanner in your car, I can't recommend a magnetic mount antenna enough. Your car, being the metal box that it is, blocks most incoming signals if the antenna is located in the car. Also, just curious, how much range are you looking for? With a handheld scanner you're not going to get more than 5-10 miles of range. A car mount antenna will top out about 20 under normal conditions. Dispatcher bases you will hear farther.

The only other suggestion I have is to open up the squelch until just before you hear white noise (your scanner's manual will tell you how to adjust the squelch).

[Jim_c]

I agree that some systems had little to no difference in reception. When a neighboring county's fire dispatch went narrow, I had to turn the volume almost to max to hear the voice, especially the dispatcher. The tones were, however, almost as loud as before. It made for an annoying process listening to them. They have since mostly fixed the low audio problem.