CN Lansing Thoroughfare

[Big T]

Why is this track through Lansing called this and not just be designated main 2?

[trainjunkie47]

Because it is not a through track. Portions of what was Main 2 are no longer in service. I'm not sure if anyone else can help with a current track diagram, or ATCS screen shot, to show you what I'm talking about?

[MiddleMI]

I'd also be super curious about a new track diagram of the tracks through town, because I've been wondering the same thing about the corridor.

EDIT: Found this at Chicagorailfan.com, but this has to be out of date, right?



Where is Mill and Hope? I can see that they are saying the the double-tracking ends after the now JAIL crossing (does it really?), but I'm not sure where Mill and Hope are aside from assuming it must be somwhere after the tracks turn down to follow Lansing Road.

[NSSD70ACe]

Why did CN take part of main 2 out of service? I noticed there is a second section near Snow Yard that is also like the Throughfare.

[KC8RBK]

Hope is the plant just west of Mt. Hope Rd at the east end of Snow Yard. Mill is the plant west of Creyts Rd at the east end of Delta Siding. The track you're talking about was called "The Service" until a few years ago. If the labeling held true through town and it was still a main it would be Main 1 like it is either side of town. The track is still there and used regularly it's just dark territory requiring verbal permission. The very middle section is stick track too. Maybe from about Millet Hwy to east of Lansing Rd somewhere. The story I've heard about why it was downgraded from a Main to a secondary track had something to do with the local crews calling for permission to make shuttle runs to GM back in the day. Some how downgrading the track made it a more efficient operation or so said someone that sits behind a desk. I would love to see them put some ribbon through Lansing and make the service back into a main again. It would cut down on delays around here and make for an easy capacity upgrade. Of course I understand it's all about $ where that stuff is concerned. When 712 comes in they will use the thoroughfare for head room. I've never understood why they don't use Mill Pass east of the switch that takes them to the Thoroughfare unless the track is oos. That and doing so would only serve a purpose if something needed to use the Thoroughfare at that exact moment in time. From the looks of the rail at Waverly they do use it from time to time.

[Dan Cluley]

Before it was the Service track, it was called the Industrial. That track has been used that way for at least 30 years, maybe forever.

[R.E.A.P.E.R.]

I've never understood why they don't use Mill Pass east of the switch that takes them to the Thoroughfare unless the track is oos.

I've heard that local instructions prohibit that with coal trains, something about the weigth.

[kckorienek]

This is called the Lansing Thoroughfare because it is non-signaled track, it is set up this way because of Snow yard. Trains can move freely, switching as they see fit on it, with dispatcher permission. With the Millet pass switches on each end being hand throws, Purina, and the Meijer lead, it was not practical at the time to circuit the track and would make local work much more difficult for the train crews and dispatcher. It is also not wholly practical as the rail out there is battered, jointed rail that would require a lot of work on signal's part to be made to pass a track circuit through, from setting up electrocode and simply bonding the rail to support the circuit outside of the crossing approaches. While it is not "yard limit", it is basically treated as a yard track that governs trains to operate at restricted speed.

The track is complete from Cedar to Mill, and is occasionally used when practical. It was used last winter one night by all trains passing through Lansing when the main track at Cedar Diamond was taken out of service while a pull apart was repaired. It is more efficient as delays are minimal. Delays are uglier for trains waiting at Potterville or Walton.

[MiddleMI]

Speaking of this track, what does JAIL and CNN switch at Hollow Yard/New Hollow Yard?

BTW, how do they run the mains in this area (outside the thoroughfare)? Are they bi-directional? I've actually never really paid attention.

[Dan Cluley]

In the double track sections, the north track is main 1, and the south track is main 2. They are both bidirectional. If they are not meeting another train, the dispatcher tends to keep trains on main 2 as that lines up with the single track sections. If they are setting up a meet, they tend to put westbounds in main 1, but that is not always the case.

[NSSD70ACe]

In the double track sections, the north track is main 1, and the south track is main 2. They are both bidirectional. If they are not meeting another train, the dispatcher tends to keep trains on main 2 as that lines up with the single track sections. If they are setting up a meet, they tend to put westbounds in main 1, but that is not always the case.

The last two westbounds I've come across have followed that....and not too long after an EB went by. Figured I was just unlucky...now I know that I should stay out longer!

[GreatLakesRailfan]

In the double track sections, the north track is main 1, and the south track is main 2. They are both bidirectional. If they are not meeting another train, the dispatcher tends to keep trains on main 2 as that lines up with the single track sections. If they are setting up a meet, they tend to put westbounds in main 1, but that is not always the case.

The last two westbounds I've come across have followed that....and not too long after an EB went by. Figured I was just unlucky...now I know that I should stay out longer!

When I was in college in the greater South Bend area, CN would run a pair of trains across the NS in downtown South Bend. It was pretty normal to have either a eastbound or a westbound train pass through Mishawaka within about a half an hour of a train running in the opposite direction's passage, although that wasn't always the case. It's interesting (to me, at least) to see they do the same thing on the double track sections around the Lansing area as well. I've also observed it a few times on the Flint Sub immediately west of West Tappan, but that's mostly a case of a westbound waiting for a eastbound train to clear the single track, not a matter of meeting multiple trains on a longer stretch of double track.

[MiddleMI]

I was curious about something else. Anyone have any diagrams or descriptions of the sidings through Lansing? I notice immediately east of Snow Yard a siding beings, and then another siding off of this one begins just east of Waverly. That siding ends just west of the Lansing Road bridge, and in the old Bing Map bird's eye view it appears to be used for storage. Another siding appears to begin again just east of the Lansing Road bridge and then ends at a lead into Hollow Yard(s) as the original siding appears to have lead into the old GM plant where it splits again. It then appears beneath the northbound MLK bridge that a siding breaks off Main 2 to the south, and then a few yards east of the bridge a siding breaks off of that siding so that Main 1 & 2 run to the north of both of these tracks. Things get a confusing after that from the bad aerials. Anyway, things look to get back to normal (Main 1 & 2) at the eastern end of the plant's grounds before tracks cross the Grand River heading for Cedar, but get interesting against just east of Pennsylvania when you'd got a mess of disconnected sidings on each side of the mains. It appears the siding on the north still connects to the mains (Main 1) just before it reaches the other Red Cedar river crossing, but the one south of the mains seems to be totally disconnected. After that, it seems that's the end of the fun in Lansing.

[KC8RBK]

Sounds like they're running 149 down the service this morning. 0905

[Steve B]

Middlemi, the Riggs Library at Durand Union Station has copies of GTW trackage maps (not engineering track charts), various dates from late 1930s to late 1970s which show car capacity for all spurs and sidings. The GTW Historical Society has offered them for sale, also.

The Lansing Thoroughfare/Service/Industrial has been designated as such for 40-odd years, same as the Flint one. Before then they were main tracks. I remember 10-11 years ago there was welded rail spotted all along it in Lansing, but CN changed its mind and didn't install it. I don't know if plans were to upgrade it to a main at the time, or only replace the rail.

[MiddleMI]

Thanks. I had another question. The diagram I posted above from https://www.chicagorailfan.com/amtkmcn.html lists mileposts that don't seem to correspond to the diagram. For instance, it has Mill at 215.0 while the diagram has it between 219 and 220, though it does show something in between 215 and 216 leaving it unlabeled. It then has Hope at 217.6 while the diagram has it between 222 and 223. More than that, it lists a milepost called "Lansing" in between Mill and Hope at 216.8.

Can anyone explain these discrepencies and what MP "Lansing" is/was?

[NSSD70ACe]

They are generally in the correct spot; however, the correct MP numbers are above the track, not below. That is what is causing your confusion.

At the same time, I do not know what CP Lansing is. It doesn't show on the ATCS Monitor so I would figure that it just indicates the town name.

[CR900945]

I thought the double track main was changed to single track to accommodate an expansion of the Oldsmobile Assembly Plant some years back. A remnant of the 2nd main then became known as the thoroughfare. Does this ring a bell with any of the older guys in the Lansing area?