Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

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PrairieKnight
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Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by PrairieKnight »

I have been following this forum but this is my first time posting. Forgive me if I am asking a rookie type question or using the wrong terms. Late this afternoon I observed a four locomotive consist pulling grain cars through Dowagiac going towards Decatur. The consist had 3 NS locos and one Kansas City Southern. I have seen Amtrak and NS locomotives on these tracks but never a Kansas City Southern. I am guessing that the grain cars were left at Decatur as I saw the four locomotives head back down through Dowagiac headed for Niles later in the evening.
Would the Kansas City Southern be a NS purchase that has not been repainted yet? Or would there be another reason for the locomotive to be up here. I took a picture of the KCS but I could not figure out how to get it from my desk top into this post.

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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by NSSD70ACe »

Welcome to the board.

A KCS locomotive up here isn't something that happens every day, especially in SW Michigan, so consider yourself lucky.

As for why it's up here, KCS is probably repaying NS in horsepower-hours. It's not uncommon for trains to have foreign power on them, especially for unit trains. For example, most coal trains in MI have BNSF or UP power, since BNSF or UP are the railroads where the mines are located. There is one coal train that goes to the West Olive power plant somewhere near Holland. I believe it originates on the BNSF out west, and then is handed over to CSX near Chicago. Then CSX would take it to West Olive.

Now, CSX is still using the original BNSF power on the train, but it's a CSX crew. So now CSX has to let BNSF use their own power on one of their trains to "even the odds".

I'm sure someone here can probably explain it in better detail, but that is how it was described to me many years ago.
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chapmaja
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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by chapmaja »

NSSD70ACe wrote:Welcome to the board.

A KCS locomotive up here isn't something that happens every day, especially in SW Michigan, so consider yourself lucky.

As for why it's up here, KCS is probably repaying NS in horsepower-hours. It's not uncommon for trains to have foreign power on them, especially for unit trains. For example, most coal trains in MI have BNSF or UP power, since BNSF or UP are the railroads where the mines are located. There is one coal train that goes to the West Olive power plant somewhere near Holland. I believe it originates on the BNSF out west, and then is handed over to CSX near Chicago. Then CSX would take it to West Olive.

Now, CSX is still using the original BNSF power on the train, but it's a CSX crew. So now CSX has to let BNSF use their own power on one of their trains to "even the odds".

I'm sure someone here can probably explain it in better detail, but that is how it was described to me many years ago.

Your general idea is pretty much on point. With that said, my understanding is that the railroads have a substantial amount of calculations involved in the horsepower hours game.

The basic idea (as I understand it) is that Railroad A will use Railroad B's locomotives for a number of hours. This is how the horsepower hours is calculated. The railroads then, for lack of a better term, have a bank of accumulated hours. Repayment can either be done in the form of a monetary payment, or by letting the other railroad use their power.

A practical example. Railroad A uses 3 of Railroad B's 4000 HP units for 24 hours. This creates a horsepower total of 288,000 HP hours. (3*24*4000). Railroad A now owes Railroad B these hours.

Railroad A can then "loan" railroad B units to repay those hours. If Railroad A loaned 4 2000 HP locomotives to Railroad B for 36 hours, the horsepower hours would even out.

What gets complicated is when railroad A uses the power and railroad B collects money for this use. The railroads often have an agreement based on the type of locomotive as to the rate of repayment. A 4000 HP locomotive is often seen as more valuable than a 1500 HP switcher, so the rate for repayment would be higher.

Hopefully this makes it as clear as mud, before we get into other agreements.

Some railroads will have run through agreements, where a railroad will keep the power on the train, rather than switching their power off at interchange. The W.O. Coal train is an example. Other times, including with shortlines, the Class 1 will keep their power on to the destination. This is generally done for 2 reasons. One is ease of operation. Second is the short line may need to use such a quantity of its power to move a unit train that it impacts other operations on the line. By keeping the power from the Class 1 on the train, it keeps the railroads other locomotives free for other work.

Some examples of this are the NS units that went up the AA and GLC with unit trains and the NS power on the INER to the elevator at S. Milford, In.

These situations are often built into the pricing structure for the transportation contract rather than being a horsepower hours situation.

hoborich
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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by hoborich »

Well, that certainly clears it up. :lol:
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eastonj
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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by eastonj »

Are these unit grain trains to Decatur a thing? A couple of months ago I caught a 4 unit light engine move east through Michigan City and at the time I thought it odd as I couldn't think of any freight trains on the Amtrak line that would require 4 units. If this runs with some regularity I might have to pay more attention to this line.

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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by AARR »

There is a relatively new elevator in Decatur set up to ship 75 car unit grain blocks.
eastonj wrote:Are these unit grain trains to Decatur a thing? A couple of months ago I caught a 4 unit light engine move east through Michigan City and at the time I thought it odd as I couldn't think of any freight trains on the Amtrak line that would require 4 units. If this runs with some regularity I might have to pay more attention to this line.

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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by Saturnalia »

eastonj wrote:Are these unit grain trains to Decatur a thing? A couple of months ago I caught a 4 unit light engine move east through Michigan City and at the time I thought it odd as I couldn't think of any freight trains on the Amtrak line that would require 4 units. If this runs with some regularity I might have to pay more attention to this line.

-Jeff
I don't know how many per year they run, but yes this is a "regular" occurance.
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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by GTW »

As of today NS/7145,KCS4033,UP2670,NS7146 are at the east end of the yard in Decatur. There is a grain train in the yard but the power is shut down. Would be nice to know when it heads west.

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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by PrairieKnight »

As of today NS/7145,KCS4033,UP2670,NS7146 are at the east end of the yard in Decatur. There is a grain train in the yard but the power is shut down. Would be nice to know when it heads west
I did not see the train come through Dowagiac this evening. Although I have seen it come through town on past Sundays. Usually between 6 pm and 7pm.

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Re: Kansas City Southern in Dowagiac.......

Unread post by GTW »

Thanks for the information. Looks like the train came in and the power was cut off and left for the weekend. I would guess it will be loaded this week and head west. Will be listening for that onthe radio.

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