Port Huron question

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MiddleMI
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Port Huron question

Unread post by MiddleMI »

Tried searching the forum for this, but wasn't able to find anything. Anyway, does anyone know what the business is directly south of Lighthouse Park? It appears to be the end of the line. And, lastly, what's the name of this branch?

GreatLakesRailfan
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

MiddleMI wrote:Tried searching the forum for this, but wasn't able to find anything. Anyway, does anyone know what the business is directly south of Lighthouse Park? It appears to be the end of the line. And, lastly, what's the name of this branch?
You mean Dunn Paper?

Technically, it's the north end of the Mount Clemens Subdivision, but the job that switches it is referred to as the HR job. Apparently HR was the code assigned to some location in Port Huron, back in the day.
~ Charles W.

ConrailDetr​oit
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

What time of day does that job run these days?

GreatLakesRailfan
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

ConrailDetr​oit wrote:What time of day does that job run these days?
Good question. Beyond the fact that it can run whenever there's a crew available and cars to be delivered, I don't know. I think there are a couple others here who will know the answer.
~ Charles W.

blueheron13
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by blueheron13 »

While we're on the subject of CN Port Huron operations, I was wondering a couple of things:

1. Are there any trains that originate or terminate in Port Huron besides the HR local, the Mount Clemens Sub local, and the intermodal train to/from Moterm?

2. For the trains that go through the tunnel after coming off the Flint Sub or Mount Clemens Sub, do the majority of them stop in the yard at Port Huron along the way, or do the majority just head right for the tunnel from Tappan?

Unfortunately I don't know anything about the HR local schedule, other than I've never seen that train anytime I've been in Port Huron. :? I was finally lucky enough to see a CSX train alongside 32nd St several months ago, however. :)
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GreatLakesRailfan
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

blueheron13 wrote:While we're on the subject of CN Port Huron operations, I was wondering a couple of things:

1. Are there any trains that originate or terminate in Port Huron besides the HR local, the Mount Clemens Sub local, and the intermodal train to/from Moterm?

2. For the trains that go through the tunnel after coming off the Flint Sub or Mount Clemens Sub, do the majority of them stop in the yard at Port Huron along the way, or do the majority just head right for the tunnel from Tappan?

Unfortunately I don't know anything about the HR local schedule, other than I've never seen that train anytime I've been in Port Huron. :? I was finally lucky enough to see a CSX train alongside 32nd St several months ago, however. :)

1. To my knowledge, no. Port Huron acts more like an extension of the yard at Sarnia than anything else. Trains run to/from the yard in Sarnia.

2. Because the 4 main tracks in PH are more or less an extension of Sarnia's yard, whether or not a train moves straight through the yard into the tunnel seems to depend on whether or not there's room in Sarnia for it, if the crew is qualified to run to Sarnia and especially where they are on hours of service.

I've seen trains wait 5 minutes to get into the yard, and I've seen trains get tied down waiting to go to Canada. It seems to depend mostly on how much room they have in Sarnia, even for through trains that just have to make pick ups and set outs.
~ Charles W.

ConrailDetr​oit
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

The yard in Sarnia is busier than Port Huron. There are switchers on all three shifts that switch the yard and nearby chemical industries on the riverfront. CSX has a terminal where the chemical switchers go on duty. Y190 runs to the CN yard to exchange cars around noon every day. The engines are GP38s and GP9 Canadian Cab rebuilds with Slugs.

blueheron13
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by blueheron13 »

Thanks for the interesting information, GreatLakesRailfan and ConrailDetroit.

I'm also wondering how common it is for the trains headed to or from the tunnel to stop in the Port Huron yard to pick up or drop off cars. Is that common, or do most trains simply stay on the four mains and end up passing right through the area between Tappan and the tunnel (with or without delays of the types described above)?
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GreatLakesRailfan
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

It used to be common to see 396 work the east end of the yard, but I'm not sure how often that happens anymore. The problem is that the switches on the east end are hand throw, and controlled by the same dispatcher who controls the tunnel. ConrailDetroit may know which dispatcher, all I can recall is that it's one of the Canadian ones. The transition point between dispatcher districts is at the west end of the yard. Homewood Desk 8/9 controls everything west of the yard, but the switches at the east end and, to a certain extent, in the middle of the yard, are the west end of the subdivision that runs through Sarnia (the name starts with 'D', but I'm drawing a blank on what it is).

For the most part, the only trains I've observed coming out of the east end of the yard, over the past few years (I don't spend as much time watching trains here as I used to) are local jobs. Most of those jobs were running as L504, usually operated by the Sarnia Puller crew, moving cars or entire trains to/from the main yard in Sarnia. Operations here seem to be kind of unique, as compared to most yards, due to the international border between the two yard locations, but as ConrailDetroit said, the yard in Sarnia is a normal (larger) yard. PH mostly functions as a four track holding/receiving yard, and block exchange point for through trains. I suspect some of the eastbound trains leave their trains west of Range Road and work the west end of the yard, rather than backing in off of Track 1, but I just don't spend enough time up there anymore to know for sure. The important thing is, the power switches are on the west end of the yard.
~ Charles W.

MiddleMI
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by MiddleMI »

GreatLakesRailfan wrote:
MiddleMI wrote:Tried searching the forum for this, but wasn't able to find anything. Anyway, does anyone know what the business is directly south of Lighthouse Park? It appears to be the end of the line. And, lastly, what's the name of this branch?
You mean Dunn Paper?

Technically, it's the north end of the Mount Clemens Subdivision, but the job that switches it is referred to as the HR job. Apparently HR was the code assigned to some location in Port Huron, back in the day.
Thanks. Weird that this is part of the Mt. Clemens Sub since it appears one can only access it from the Flint Sub or the yard. Did it use to cross the Flint Sub, and if so when was the track taken up? Also, is Dunn Paper the only customer along what is now effectively this branch line?

GreatLakesRailfan
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

Dunn is at the north end. Domtar is just across the Black River, and there's another customer across the track from Domtar. Those are the only customers I'm aware of on the line.

Before the tunnels, the only way across the river was ferry. My understanding is that there was a ferry between Fort Gratiot and Point Edward, back when the car shops were in Fort Gratiot. That would be the old Fort Gratiot, which was long ago annexed into the City of Port Huron. Present day Fort Gratiot is a ways north of this particular area.

In more modern times, there was a cement plant where the car shops were (I think, I'm not all that familiar with what was where on that end of the line). The Dunn Paper plant has had various owners over the years, but my understanding is that this was Dunn's first plant.

The Mt Clemens sub would have run from Fort Gratiot to Detroit at one time, this is the line young Thomas Edison worked, back in the day. The north end of the line has lost much of its significance over the years, but I don't believe the railroad would have had a reason to change what they call it. I was surprised to see it was part of the Mt Clemens sub too, at first.

If nothing else, it's an indication of how much this area has changed over the years.
~ Charles W.

GreatLakesRailfan
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

One more thing. A few years ago when they built the Michigan Road overpass, the south end of the line that runs into Port Huron had to be rerouted to allow the overpass grades to work properly. Most of the old grade is still in place, although the overpass cuts right through it now. From the ground, it's pretty obviously aligned with the Mt Clemens sub, but I'm not sure how it looks on the satellite imagery. I don't know when the crossing was converted to just a wye, but probably sometime around the point when the main yard was moved to its present location. As far as I'm aware, the main yard has been connected to the tunnel for well over a century now.
~ Charles W.

blueheron13
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Re: Port Huron question

Unread post by blueheron13 »

the west end of the subdivision that runs through Sarnia
That would be the Strathroy Subdivision, which officially begins just west of the 16th St crossing (where the Flint Subdivision officially ends). I had wondered why the CN Michigan Division timetable showed the east end of the Flint Subdivision on the Strathroy page, but with your explanation, it makes sense: once you are east Tappan, different rules apply even though you are still officially on the Flint Sub for a couple of miles.
Most of those jobs were running as L504, usually operated by the Sarnia Puller crew, moving cars or entire trains to/from the main yard in Sarnia.
Ah, I did not know that L504, which people usually photograph heading to/from Dunn Paper and the Blue Water Bridge, also goes through the tunnel. So now let me see if I understand correctly. Let's say an EB road train has some cars eventually destined for the local that goes down the Mount Clemens sub. So that train might take those cars into the Port Huron yard using the switches on the west side (at Tappan) or it might actually take those cars into Sarnia and have the L504 bring them back to the Port Huron yard?
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