I recently purchased a CN Michigan Division timetable (April 2017) and after staring at the Holly Subdivision information both in this timetable and on ATCS Monitor, I realized I have some questions that I hope you very knowledgeable folks might be able to answer:
1. The Holly Sub is now listed as CTC from end to end. When did the segment from Milwaukee Junction to Moterm become CTC? Was it when the new Sugar House Wye was put into service, or some other time?
2. What is the correct name for signals located in between those at CTC control points? These signals have number plates on them. An example would be those located at Caniff St or those located north of the Troy Transit Center next to Whole Foods Market (next to the train in this picture):
20170708_175410 by Brian Mohr, on Flickr
3. Why are some CTC signals (like those at control point Raven) situated where nothing is located (in other words, no sidings, crossovers, junctions, etc.)?
4. Do trains at the Moterm intermodal yard always enter/exit from the south (using the lead located just north of the 8 Mile Rd bridge)? Or do trains occasionally use the north lead that crosses Hilton Rd, joining the third track (named S Thorofare in ATCS Monitor) south of 9 Mile Rd?
5. Similar question for the yard in Pontiac: Do trains enter/exit the yard from both the north and south (West Blvd and Johnson Ave, respectively)?
6. Why are certain CN-owned segments missing from the timetable? For example, the sections of track in/near Pontiac that are all that's left of the Belt Line and Cass City Sub? Or the very short section of the Dequindre Line (south from Milwaukee Jct to MP 4.04 at the E Grand Blvd overpass) that CN still owns (but only the DCON operates on)?
7. This is more of an FYI, but did anyone else know that the City of Pleasant Ridge owns a park (Gainsboro Park) that parallels the Holly Sub on the west side from a block or so north of Woodward Heights Blvd almost up to I-696. It has a nice bike/pedestrian path in it. If you want a photo of a train crossing the I-696 bridge, with vegetables in the foreground, this would be the spot (obviously no train when I was there):
20170708_161839 by Brian Mohr, on Flickr
Thanks for reading and for any answers you might have for this amateur railfan.
CN Holly Sub: A Few Questions
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- Railroadfan...fan
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CN Holly Sub: A Few Questions
Amateur railfan trying to become a real railfan since 2017.
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- Railroadfan...fan
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Re: CN Holly Sub: A Few Questions
1. Sometime last year the Holly Sub was upgraded to CTC between Moterm and the Junction around the same time the sugarhouse wye was reconstructed.
2. Intermediate Signals.
3. Dont know why CN has Control Points at what would be nothing more than a black signal. Commonwealth was the same way on the Shoreline Sub before it was reconfigured as a crossover and now called Avery. CN is constantly changing signal s and control points (even ones that are a few years old) and may have planned to install a crossover just north of the Amtrak Station in Royal Oak but changed their mind.
More answers coming later
2. Intermediate Signals.
3. Dont know why CN has Control Points at what would be nothing more than a black signal. Commonwealth was the same way on the Shoreline Sub before it was reconfigured as a crossover and now called Avery. CN is constantly changing signal s and control points (even ones that are a few years old) and may have planned to install a crossover just north of the Amtrak Station in Royal Oak but changed their mind.
More answers coming later
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- Railroadfan...fan
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- Location: Detroit
Re: CN Holly Sub: A Few Questions
4. To enter the yard, trains prefer to pull north of Control Point Moterm then shove into the yard onto the south thoroughfare to avoid hand switches at the other end. The opposite would happen when a train is ready to depart south, shove north out of the yard then proceed south. Last year, CN upgraded the hand throw crossovers at 9.2 just south of 8 Mile to power switches now called Control Point Fern. They may now enter from the south end at 9.4. Observations will tell.
5. Yes. The locals directly enter the yard. The trains that work the yards usually stop on the Main and shove in to the yard to set off or pickup.
6. Dont know why CN does not include those segments on the timetable. CN doesnt do anything more than wye engines south of Milwaukee Jct, if that.
5. Yes. The locals directly enter the yard. The trains that work the yards usually stop on the Main and shove in to the yard to set off or pickup.
6. Dont know why CN does not include those segments on the timetable. CN doesnt do anything more than wye engines south of Milwaukee Jct, if that.
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- Railroadfan...fan
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Re: CN Holly Sub: A Few Questions
Thanks so much for your responses! I wish I had more time to just get out and watch all these movements for myself.
Amateur railfan trying to become a real railfan since 2017.
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- Railroadfan...fan
- Posts: 531
- Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:01 pm
- Location: All over Southeast Michigan
Re: CN Holly Sub: A Few Questions
Based on watching ATCS over the past couple of weeks, it looks like L533 typically still enters the yard from the north at CP Moterm, but typically starts heading back to Port Huron by entering the mainline at CP Fern. That's if I'm reading all the red lines on ATCS correctly.To enter the yard, trains prefer to pull north of Control Point Moterm then shove into the yard onto the south thoroughfare to avoid hand switches at the other end. The opposite would happen when a train is ready to depart south, shove north out of the yard then proceed south. Last year, CN upgraded the hand throw crossovers at 9.2 just south of 8 Mile to power switches now called Control Point Fern. They may now enter from the south end at 9.4. Observations will tell.
Amateur railfan trying to become a real railfan since 2017.