Progress of the Michigan Line M/W (part 5)

[NS3322]

The other week I was scouting Jackson yard as I do whenever I am in the neighborhood. There are quite a bit of materials showing up near the old RIP track. Of coarse that area is inaccessible unless you want the po po called so I could not get close enough to tell what it was or if it is NS stuff or Amtrak.

Someone with a drone could probably get a better idea of what the stuff is without getting in trouble.. just sayin

The RIP track near S. Elm Ave?

[SousaKerry]

The RIP track in the Jackson Yard. Out behind the Miller Warehousing buildings(old NYC shops) One could drive back in there but it is quite a ways off the pavement and I wouldn't get caught back there without an escort or iron clad permission. Consumers Energy runs a gas pipe welding shop out of the back end of the complex, it is beyond that.

[NSSD70ACe]

Quick update on the Kalamazoo signals: the ORIGINAL SIGNALS are getting a second signal head placed underneath. The NEW signals are only single heads.

Does this change anything in terms of what was said earlier?

[Saturnalia]

Quick update on the Kalamazoo signals: the ORIGINAL SIGNALS are getting a second signal head placed underneath. The NEW signals are only single heads.

Does this change anything in terms of what was said earlier?

Given that those are the only signals between the two control points, they should end up with two heads for each track in each direction according to current standards. Sounds like that's what they'll be when they're done adding, no?

[NSSD70ACe]

Quick update on the Kalamazoo signals: the ORIGINAL SIGNALS are getting a second signal head placed underneath. The NEW signals are only single heads.

Does this change anything in terms of what was said earlier?

Given that those are the only signals between the two control points, they should end up with two heads for each track in each direction according to current standards. Sounds like that's what they'll be when they're done adding, no?

I passed by this morning again, and as far as I could tell, they're done adding heads. There's now a signal shed at that location as well as what looks to be a short PTC antenna, maybe 7 or 8 feet tall. Only a couple of Amtrak pickups on location, neither equipped with a cherry picker to lift and install the head.
Configuration is still same as above: both original signals have added a second head and the new signals have only one head each. All the new signals are still bagged, so if current standards require two heads in each direction, then I suppose they won't be unbagged until the new ones are added. That begs the question, why didn't they add them at the same time?

[Saturnalia]

The interesting question here has to do with Amtrak's rules on the Michigan Line. They use GCOR, which I'm not as familiar with, as it isn't like the speed-based CSX and NS/CR rules we're all more familiar with here in Michigan. I think much of the confusion is that the east end (I think) is still using speed signals on the previous rules, while Amtrak on the west end is just using their route signals, hence the single head for a westbound into a diverging route at the WEDT, because the rule book tells them their speed, not the signal.

Now I don't know, what they're installing here. We guess we should just wait and see what happens, because it is an odd case of moving from 251 "directional" to 261 "bi directional" CTC/ABS rules, in a spot where the signal rules might be different on either side, adding to the ambiguity.

As for them actually installing the heads: why would they have to do it all in one day? Maybe they're done, maybe they aren't...but it takes time to modify a mast already in the air. Usually signals are installed in their "as finished" state because they're preinstalled on the ground. Actually, most railroads would fully replace the masts here entirely. My hunch is Amtrak is doing it this way due to budget limits.

Who knows. It's odd. We'll know eventually, I guess.

[amtrak1007]

Ok folks, I love dreaming as much as the next foamer, but here's the facts folks.

1) Amtrak Runs GCOR on their section of the line with NORAC rules on either end.
2) GCOR no longer includes signal rules. This has been left up to each individual railroad to develop. For example GCOR signal rules didn't have an Approach Limited... Also keep in mind the ITCS signal rules are different that what GCOR had when signals were included in the guide.
3) Yes the plan is to goto 261 rules when Wayne is cut in.
4) It IS actually cheaper to install the heads on existing poles vs installing new ones.
5) The eastbound heads were added to accommodate 261 on track one, also for an approach medium aspect due to crossovers at BO. Westbound on 2 was added for 261. Thing with CP147, West of 145, is that's an equilateral switch, good for 60 in any direction, so no lower heads are needed at 145 westbound.

[Saturnalia]

Thanks for clearing that up, Glenn. Those few missing pieces fully fills in the puzzle

[justalurker66]

Configuration is still same as above: both original signals have added a second head and the new signals have only one head each.

Are you sure? It looks like the old signals (unbagged heads) are a single head in each direction right hand running. The new heads are two on the back of the westbound signal and one on the back of the eastbound signal with one below the current eastbound signal. That would give two heads on each track eastbound (approaching the crossovers downtown) and one head on each track westbound.

[Buster Manning]

NORAC is in place on the shared assets east of Townline....NS west of CP-482. As for the signals, they are speed signals on the Mich line......only routing signals we would see are from CP-521 into CUS......and your guess on the speed at CP-147 is a little slow......79 mph thru there

[NSSD70ACe]

Configuration is still same as above: both original signals have added a second head and the new signals have only one head each.

Are you sure? It looks like the old signals (unbagged heads) are a single head in each direction right hand running. The new heads are two on the back of the westbound signal and one on the back of the eastbound signal with one below the current eastbound signal. That would give two heads on each track eastbound (approaching the crossovers downtown) and one head on each track westbound.

Amtrak Kalamazoo New Signals - Edited.jpg

I was just logging in to correct my error. Noticed it this morning when I passed by again.

Thanks for the double check and I apologize for the confusion

[justalurker66]

As posted on TO ...

MICHIGAN SUBDIVISION
GENERAL ORDER No. 3-13 (excerpt)
Effective 2200, Monday, May 8, 2017

I. Subdivision Territory Additions – Control Cutover Dates

Amtrak will assume operation and control of the following territories on the dates and times below. Amtrak Timetable and Special Instructions and GCOR rules will be in effect. Amtrak DTB will be required to operate between Conrail CP Townline (exclusive) and CP 21 (exclusive) at the dates and times indicated.

Note: With the completion of this final Control Cutover section, Amtrak Timetable, Special Instructions, GCOR, and Amtrak DTB between Conrail CP Townline (exclusive) and CN Baron (exclusive), and CN Gord (exclusive) and NS CP 482 (exclusive), are required for the Amtrak Michigan Subdivision dispatched territory.

A. Effective 2200 Hours, Monday May 8th, 2017

Conrail CP Townline (MP 7.4) (exclusive) to CP 21 (exclusive)

[Fred]

Cutover postponed until this thurs.

[twropr]

Interesting that Amtrak had no problem transitioning from NS Dearborn to Chicago control of dispatching from Kalamazoo to CP 21 previously. Maybe the CSX crossing at Wayne and control east of Town Line by Conrail Shared Assets presented problems?
Andy

[NSSD70ACe]

Amtrak MoW crews have a front end loader, a backhoe, rails, ties, and a couple track panels in Kalamazoo between Stadium Drive and the track at the West Michigan Avenue crossing. Signals 1451 and 1452 still have the new heads bagged over. Has anyone heard anything about what's happening with the new heads?

[Saturnalia]

Has anyone heard anything about what's happening with the new heads?

Well at some point I imagine they'll turn them on, bringing ordinary bi-directional running to both mains through town.

Track panels sounds like a crossing replacement.

[NSSD70ACe]

Has anyone heard anything about what's happening with the new heads?

Well at some point I imagine they'll turn them on, bringing ordinary bi-directional running to both mains through town.

Track panels sounds like a crossing replacement.

It's about time they replace that crossing. Every time I go over it I feel like I have enough lift to fly to the moon.

Is Amtrak really expecting to be busy enough to warrant bi-directional running? Last I checked the new corridor trains still lacked their bilevel coaches and Amtrak is still facing an equipment shortage.

[Saturnalia]

Bi-directional running on dual mains is standard these days, gives them greater flexibility. Since they're only amending two blocks, the cost is minimal, and as you suggested, sets them up for the future.

Signaling, bridges and track take lots of time and money, so they're usually done with the future in mind as much as current conditions.

[PatAzo]

It's about time they replace that crossing. Every time I go over it I feel like I have enough lift to fly to the moon.

How do you go fast enough at the West Michigan Ave crossing to launch to the moon?

Is Amtrak really expecting to be busy enough to warrant bi-directional running? Last I checked the new corridor trains still lacked their bilevel coaches and Amtrak is still facing an equipment shortage.

For the cost of a few additional heads why not give yourself the flexibility of bi-directional running?

[NSSD70ACe]

It's about time they replace that crossing. Every time I go over it I feel like I have enough lift to fly to the moon.

How do you go fast enough at the West Michigan Ave crossing to launch to the moon?

Doing the turn onto West Michigan at about 15 or 20 in my tiny Corolla has me bouncing around like a rodeo.

Is Amtrak really expecting to be busy enough to warrant bi-directional running? Last I checked the new corridor trains still lacked their bilevel coaches and Amtrak is still facing an equipment shortage.

For the cost of a few additional heads why not give yourself the flexibility of bi-directional running?

I suppose that makes sense. Thanks.