GLC-CSX Interchange

[chapmaja]

It seems like the interchange between CSX and GLC at AnnPere is much heavier now that it was in the past. The question I have is why? Is the GLC running that many more cars on their portion of the railroad, or is there an issue following the previously used method of using the AA as a bridge route for the traffic? What has the interchange count been at Osmer between the GLC and AA?

I could see CSX pushing for all their interchange to be done via AnnPere, but I thought that was originally lessened because of the related to the hill coming into Howell or blocking up the crossings in Howell. Has the GLC or CSX had a change of mind over these issues.

Related to this, I've noticed GLC unit trains coming to AnnPere running with 5 engines. Could this be related to having to handle the hill east of AnnPere for interchange, so they don't block the crossings west of AnnPere?

Is any CSX-GLC interchange traffic handled via the AA anymore or is all of that now at AnnPere meaning any AA-GLC interchange is destined for NS in Toledo?

[Saturnalia]

It sounds like more unit trains, fertilizer and grain, are moving via AnnPere than in the past. On the mixed traffic side, I'm not sure that it has increased so much as the stuff dwells there longer and/or is delivered less frequently, giving a false impression that it is actually busier. CSX and GLC both routinely "highball" the interchange when they're short on time, which is frequent for both roads.

Needless to say, it isn't the easiest place in the world to interchange, with the track setup on of the biggest barriers. The transfer track isn't in the right quadrant, for starters!

[csx801]

Great Lakes Central has had a moderate increase in traffic over the past few years. They have a new customer in McBain that just came on line this year, as well as a considerable amount of new animal feed traffic. A lot of commodities traffic has been taken from LSRC as well. This doesn't make for a significant increase, but an increase none the less.

More notably, GLC goes through a lot of seasonal ups and downs. GLC is very agricultural, which makes for heavier counts during seasons of high production. Furthermore, many of their non agricultural customers are more active in fall / winter. Propane demands are significantly higher during the winter, which counts for a lot of cadillac traffic. Trains are usually much lengthier in the fall and winter than they are in the summer months.

A few of these points are based on educated observations. Feel free to correct, or add on any information

I am also curious to know which traffic goes to NS via AA as opposed to CSX. If anyone has any info on this, it would be greatly appreciated!

[SD80MAC]

The amount of CSX-GLC traffic going via Ann Pere has definitely increased in the past year. There recently have also been a few potash trains interchanged at Ann Pere that run CP-CSX-GLC-HESR that formerly ran CP-CSX-LSRC-HESR. I have been told that GLC has been trying to cut out the middle man (Ann Arbor) and has been trying to route more CSX traffic directly to/from CSX.

Also on a maybe related or unrelated note, CSX recently installed a switch heater on the GLC interchange switch at Ann Pere, the only non power switch on the Plymouth sub to have one.

[BL2-1843]

It sounds like more unit trains, fertilizer and grain, are moving via AnnPere than in the past. On the mixed traffic side, I'm not sure that it has increased so much as the stuff dwells there longer and/or is delivered less frequently, giving a false impression that it is actually busier. CSX and GLC both routinely "highball" the interchange when they're short on time, which is frequent for both roads.

Needless to say, it isn't the easiest place in the world to interchange, with the track setup on of the biggest barriers. The transfer track isn't in the right quadrant, for starters!

Regarding the above, the majority of the Ann Pere interchange and large amounts of cars for pick up and delivery is indeed not an increase in traffic, but due to the joke that CSX has become using D job trains to haul large amounts of road traffic on their locals. If D708 switched Ann Pere five days a week Monday-Friday (which they don't) they would not have to use the CSX siding to hold many cars that would fit in the transfer otherwise, because it keeps building up for lack of getting there every day. This in turn forces GLC to come over on to CSX to make their pick up and set offs there.

GLC sat 21 cars off for CSX in the Howell pass last Thursday (six days ago already) and CSX has yet to pick them up. Last night, 708 sat off 22 cars for GLC in the Howell pass going east ON TOP of the 21 cars have yet to be picked up from last Thursdays set off. So many times, GLC has to set off Ann Pere cars in their Howell siding because the transfer is full and has not been picked up yet.

Regarding bulk unit trains for Ann Pere interchange, here has been two fertilizer trains since last fall, but there has not been any grain train interchange in many years. When GLC comes over on CSX with many units. except for the Pot Ash loads, it is only a coincidence because they have that many units on to haul a grain load south to Osmer, and then they stop to pick up cars on their way north, regarding if they are in the transfer or have to come over on CSX to get them out of the Howell pass.

It would help immensely if they would reinstate the northwest transfer into the Howell pass directly off of GLC. There was one there until the late 1930s early 1940s.

[chapmaja]

It sounds like more unit trains, fertilizer and grain, are moving via AnnPere than in the past. On the mixed traffic side, I'm not sure that it has increased so much as the stuff dwells there longer and/or is delivered less frequently, giving a false impression that it is actually busier. CSX and GLC both routinely "highball" the interchange when they're short on time, which is frequent for both roads.

Needless to say, it isn't the easiest place in the world to interchange, with the track setup on of the biggest barriers. The transfer track isn't in the right quadrant, for starters!

Regarding the above, the majority of the Ann Pere interchange and large amounts of cars for pick up and delivery is indeed not an increase in traffic, but due to the joke that CSX has become using D job trains to haul large amounts of road traffic on their locals. If D708 switched Ann Pere five days a week Monday-Friday (which they don't) they would not have to use the CSX siding to hold many cars that would fit in the transfer otherwise, because it keeps building up for lack of getting there every day. This in turn forces GLC to come over on to CSX to make their pick up and set offs there.

GLC sat 21 cars off for CSX in the Howell pass last Thursday (six days ago already) and CSX has yet to pick them up. Last night, 708 sat off 22 cars for GLC in the Howell pass going east ON TOP of the 21 cars have yet to be picked up from last Thursdays set off. So many times, GLC has to set off Ann Pere cars in their Howell siding because the transfer is full and has not been picked up yet.

Regarding bulk unit trains for Ann Pere interchange, here has been two fertilizer trains since last fall, but there has not been any grain train interchange in many years. When GLC comes over on CSX with many units. except for the Pot Ash loads, it is only a coincidence because they have that many units on to haul a grain load south to Osmer, and then they stop to pick up cars on their way north, regarding if they are in the transfer or have to come over on CSX to get them out of the Howell pass.

It would help immensely if they would reinstate the northwest transfer into the Howell pass directly off of GLC. There was one there until the late 1930s early 1940s.

I was wondering of the CSX Plan had anything to do with this. I drive to work in Howell every morning going past Livingston Feed and Seed. I can see the west end of the passing siding and it does seem to get rather full at times. I have also noticed the GLC's siding used several times to store cars as well. The last time I recall that happening prior to recent months was when the interchange was out of service as a result of the train hitting the truck at the Lucy Rd crossing.

Does anyone know what the car count is for the Howell Passing siding? I've seen a couple times where cars are almost to the signal bridge, but I don't know if this is a train dead on hours or a massive pileup of cars.

I'm sure the GLC isn't real pleased, as putting inbound cars into the siding on top of cars they've left to drop off has to be a problem for them.

[BL2-1843]

Depending on the length of individual cars, you can get 80 cars in the Howell passing siding from bond to bond between Dearborn Street and Lucy Road. I may add, in defense of CSX, when the westbound D708 or D908 trains have no time left to set off GLC cars that are pre blocked at Toledo to be set off there going west, 708 has to bring them back east. When doing so, instead of taking them to Plymouth and back AGAN, and knowing in advance there will be more set off cars coming back west, they set them off in the Howell pass going east, and then coming back west, instead of setting them off in the transfer, will set them off on top of the cars that were set off going east. Each day is a new story.

Those 21 pick up cars GLC sat off in the pass, now a week ago today, are still there, with the GLC cars for them on the east end of the consist. GLC is hoping CSX cars picked up, for if not, they will have to switch them out themselves when they come to get theirs. There is always next week. Yesterdays 708 never ran east out of Lansing with a train as they taxied to Brighton to get Tuesdays train. Ashei-Kasei at Fowlerville has now not been switched in three days, and its been over a week since they have been to Thai-Summit in Howell again. "How Tomorrow Moves"

[AARR]

At one time interchange with CN in Durand was picking up (more reliable service) and AnnPere was dropping. Now it seems AnnPere is picking up and CN dropping.

It seems to me if the interchange between CSX & GLC was a problem more cars would be rerouted to CN. So even though cars sit in AnnPere for what to us railfans seems too long maybe the dwell time is not an issue with the customers (1st priority) or GLC.

[chapmaja]

I noticed today as I left work, that the cars were still just to the west of the curve and this visible from Livingston Feed and Seed. I don't know how many cars that would be from Lucy Rd. I did notice that they were the same cars in the same place since Monday.

With that said, I did hear a train horn coming into Howell about 4:30 pm as I was entering Taco Bell on D-19. I didn't have time to go "chase" anything in Howell as I had to eat and run. I don't know if CSX worked something in Howell this afternoon or not.

[chapmaja]

Cars were gone and the west end of the siding was clear when I drove by on my way to work about 8:30 Friday morning. There were cars on the small siding off the GLC south of AnnPere when I headed I-96 EB today after work.

[BL2-1843]

Cars were gone and the west end of the siding was clear when I drove by on my way to work about 8:30 Friday morning. There were cars on the small siding off the GLC south of AnnPere when I headed I-96 EB today after work.

CSX finally picked up the GLC cars off of the Howell pass on Thursday afternoon that had sat there for a full week. However, the 22 cars that 708 had sat off the day before FOR GLC, still sits there as GLC did not pick them up when they were in Howell around noon Friday. Those cars sit just west of Lucy Road. GLC loaded up the transfer for CSX on Friday, but 708 never left the yard on Friday, or if they did, got only as far as Trowbridge so kiss this that pick up goodbye for awhile. D908 re-crew came out over night, and came direct to Fowlerville, arriving at 1 am this morning. At 9am, they died their after THAT LONG just to switch Fowlerville. Nothing more than I would expect with Ashai-Ksei not having a switch since last Monday, which is a usual 3-4 hour switch when they get there three times a week.

Not "another" recrew in site for a long time yet so who knows how long this will sit. They have 38 cars in their train, and "should have" Thai-Summit empties with them seeing they have not been there in well over a week. Perhaps many Ann Pere cars to set off on top of the ones already there, and perhaps the reason GLC did not pick them up Friday knowing more were coming. As AARR brought up in this thread, GLC just plain needs to do away with any Ann Pere interchange cars and take their business elsewhere for interchange. 708 would have much more time to haul road train traffic around from Plymouth if they didn't have this bothersome interchange traffic to deal with.

[TC Man]

It's all planned by CSX and GLC just to see how many railfans it takes to catch on to them. So far, they are winning.

[Doktor No]

It's all planned by CSX and GLC just to see how many railfans it takes to catch on to them. So far, they are winning.

EHH will shake things up....starting soon. Hopefully soon!

[NYCMan]

It is true that if EHH gets in, her WILL shake things up at CSX. He will cut, cut, cut, cut, cut crews. The featherbedders will be unemployed. CSX employees that want their jobs will have to work, work, work. Those that complain will be shown the door. It will be interesting to watch. Thank God that I am retired!

[NYCMan]

It occurs to me that it makes zero sense for GLC to interchange with CSX at Ann Pere (Howell). GLC is owned by Watco. Watco also owns AA. At Toledo, AA interchanges with all 3 Class I railroads (CN, CSX, and NS). It certainly makes more sense for all of GLC's traffic to flow down to Toledo and be handed off to the Class Is at that location. As far as CSX is concerned, Toledo to Chicago is a 24 hour move; Howell to Chicago is at least 2 days or more depending upon how often CSX picks up at Ann Pere.

[TSBy390]

It occurs to me that it makes zero sense for GLC to interchange with CSX at Ann Pere (Howell). GLC is owned by Watco. Watco also owns AA. At Toledo, AA interchanges with all 3 Class I railroads (CN, CSX, and NS). It certainly makes more sense for all of GLC's traffic to flow down to Toledo and be handed off to the Class Is at that location. As far as CSX is concerned, Toledo to Chicago is a 24 hour move; Howell to Chicago is at least 2 days or more depending upon how often CSX picks up at Ann Pere.

Watco has investments in GLC but i don't think they own it like they own AA, i could be wrong though.

[AARR]

From what Chris Bagwell, GLC's President, said at a AARRT&HA annual meeting two year ago you are correct TSBy390. Watco has invested in GLC but doesn't own it. However, things may have changed since.

It occurs to me that it makes zero sense for GLC to interchange with CSX at Ann Pere (Howell). GLC is owned by Watco. Watco also owns AA. At Toledo, AA interchanges with all 3 Class I railroads (CN, CSX, and NS). It certainly makes more sense for all of GLC's traffic to flow down to Toledo and be handed off to the Class Is at that location. As far as CSX is concerned, Toledo to Chicago is a 24 hour move; Howell to Chicago is at least 2 days or more depending upon how often CSX picks up at Ann Pere.

Watco has investments in GLC but i don't think they own it like they own AA, i could be wrong though.

[BerkshireKid]

Watco does not own GLC. Federated Investments does. Watco has an investment with a small ownership stake and thats it

[chapmaja]

Watco does not own GLC. Federated Investments does. Watco has an investment with a small ownership stake and thats it

I can understand them having a small stake. I know the WATCO website does not list ownership of the GLC, so I am believing that Federated Investments still owns the majority of the GLC. With that said, Watco does have trackage rights over the GLC.

Looking at the Ann Arbor Railroad map on the WATCO website, the Ann Arbor Railroad ownership appears to end at bridge over W. Huron St. The remaining tracks to Osmer at shown, but are no listed as Ann Arbor railroad.

I though the end of the ownership was further "north" than this as I thought the Ann Arbor still had the trackage to at least the interchange tracks with NS/ Amtrak and the spur to the forest products place (both are now disconnected) I thought the AA disconnected those switches, but according to the map they couldn't have because they don't own that.

[chapmaja]

Watco does not own GLC. Federated Investments does. Watco has an investment with a small ownership stake and thats it

It would not shock me if WATCO wanted to get their hands on the GLC. They would then merge the operations back into one railroad. This would allow access for all customers to 3 class one railroads in Toledo, plus the IORY and W&LE via Toledo as well. It would also serve as a simplified bridge route between the HESR and both CSX and NS in Toledo, bypassing the need for the SBS to take cars from Saginaw to Flint for CSX.