Harrison Leaves CP early, looks to CSX, end of CSX in MI?

[CSX_CO]

I thought this was all hashed out? MQT3001 with all the insight in the world, and the rest of us don't know anything?

[Saturnalia]

MQT3001 with all the insight in the world, and the rest of us don't know anything?

Russ, honestly, grow up. You know darn well there are only chances and perspectives here, and nothing to "know" for sure because it's all speculation. I guess you must really enjoy turning this site's speculation threads into hit-jobs, because it makes you happy or whatever.

If you want to debate and discuss, then by all means let's go, I love it. But why does it have to be a petty man's war in which you alone can win?

For the last 5 years, you've continually baffled me as to the last question.

[MQT1223]

Lol Triggered.

[Schteinkuh]

*Turns on notifications

[CSX_CO]

You're the one who said there was nothing left to discuss (see below). Only nothing left to discuss if someone disagrees with your outlook. At which point you'll chime in, then declare discussion closed. Which is probably why people stop coming here. Ok to debate, as long as you agree with what's said. Never mind history proves you wrong, and dropping speed isn't letting a line "decay". Local service isn't about speed, it's about reliability. If you can move the traffic at 25mph and save millions, it's going to 25.

CP doesn't want the PM. That torch passed almost 30 years ago.

Going to copy and paste this from the chat.

(14:12:37) justin_gram: Here's the point. No one knows what exactly will happen. Let's all just sit back, enjoy what we have, and hope for the best. Only time will tell what happens. With EHH going in, I'm sure the line will be fine.

(14:13:38) Saturnalia: Yeah, we've pretty much flushed out all there is to say for now...

[Schteinkuh]

CP doesn't want the PM. That torch passed almost 30 years ago.

Don't tell Racer,

[CSX_CO]

CP doesn't want the PM. That torch passed almost 30 years ago.

Don't tell Racer,

I know. I said in the chat, the other line with as rabid of fans is in SE Ohio and there is entire thread dedicated to the glorious future of that meandering cowpath. The parallels are numerous, but at least the PM still has online business.

[Saturnalia]

CP doesn't want the PM. That torch passed almost 30 years ago.

Then explain to me why in the last 10 years CP has offered to buy the line, going as far as to name their price, and has on at least one occasion gone extremely far into discussions and draft contracts for re-establishing trackage rights?

Just because I suggest that we've done a fairly good job of flushing out the arguments doesn't have any implications if I feel the desire to continue the discussion.

[CSX_CO]

Where's your proof?

You realize line sales and trackage rights have to go through the STB? Even thinking about talking has to be filed.

Or, is it your "sandhouse runors" and "Union guy says"...

[Schteinkuh]

Where's your proof?

You realize line sales and trackage rights have to go through the STB? Even thinking about talking has to be filed.

Or, is it your "sandhouse runors" and "Union guy says"...

To be fair, CO has a point. I haven't seen anything in regards to CP putting a price on the CSX property in MI.

[Saturnalia]

Where's your proof?

You realize line sales and trackage rights have to go through the STB? Even thinking about talking has to be filed..

Of course I'm aware that trackage right she must go through the STB. However, I was not aware that merely discussing it warranted filing with the STB. Perhaps you could show me where it is written that such a filing is required? I just spent a decent amount of time paging through STB and other resources searching for the answer, with no word anywhere that there is such a filing requirement.

Such a requirement wouldn't make much sense, since they have to get final permission anyways, and the contractual agreement itself is included in the filing and decisions about the rights anyways.

So I'd like proof on that claim because I'm dubious about it.

And...of course...I have no proof on my claims, but I'm inclined to believe them, as they originate from numerous trustworthy sources. I know you'll never believe me, because it'd be against everything you've ever done, but I know that it wasn't sandhouse talk and that in fact, CP has almost returned to GR at least twice in the last decade.

[CSX_CO]

It has to be made known so outside parties can file adverse petitions, file to block the sale/transaction, workforce concerns, etc. etc. etc.

It's in the Codified Rules.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/1180

(b) Prefiling notification.

(1) Between 3 to 6 months prior to the proposed filing of an application in a major transaction, and 2 to 4 months prior to the proposed filing of an application in a significant transaction, applicant shall file a notice with the Board. The notice shall:

(i) Briefly describe the transaction,

(ii) Indicate the year to be used for the impact analysis,

(iii) Indicate the approximate filing date of the application, and

(iv) Indicate why the transaction is major or significant.

If they were basically writing contracts and had "set the price" they would have made pre-motion filings before even getting that far.

Unless what you heard was from a Division Manager or up, it's sandhouse talk. Decisions of that nature don't get made at the local level.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

The solution here is obvious. Sell the downtown GR trackage plus GR to West Olive to Grand Elk and abandon the rest. Let the lawyers hash out the details. Everybody wins.

[CSX_CO]

Within 30 days of the pre-motion being filed, it will be made public record. This doesn't even deal with filing of the sale or rights themselves, this is the filing of the "intent to file."

As Amtk55 said. Never once seen any pre-motion filings to even indicate a transaction was even on the table, or even coming to the table. Notice has to be served to the Federal Agencies to start the process.

[Saturnalia]

What is the definition of a "major" or "significant" transaction?

[Schteinkuh]

The solution here is obvious. Sell the downtown GR trackage plus GR to West Olive to Grand Elk and abandon the rest. Let the lawyers hash out the details. Everybody wins.

I'd put my money on G&W before GDLK

[redcrumbox]

I truly enjoy the sandhouse rumors.

[Ben Higdon]

Whats the lifespan of the powerplant at West Olive? That's the only thing holding the potential thru-route together.

[SD80MAC]

Whats the lifespan of the powerplant at West Olive? That's the only thing holding the potential thru-route together.

At least another 20-25 years after the updates Consumers finished last year.

[CSX_CO]

What is the definition of a "major" or "significant" transaction?

Dig thru the CFR I'm sure it will tell you.

Either way, the STB has final say if the railroad initial filing is correct in the classification of the transaction.