Lake Shore Limited Michigan test routing

[Ypsi]

As we have picked up in the Amtrak Michigan line MOW thread, it seems likely that the lake shore limited will be running a Michigan routing for a month in the fall on a trail basis.

What I have heard (both online and form other sources:
-Running Detroit line from Toledo to Detroit
-October 1st is when the trial should start
-Trial last a month
-Amtrak crews should run all the way from Toledo to Chicago and vice versa as they currently do

What we don't know:
-Will there be an ITCS engine added/ subtracted regularly at Toledo
-What stops will it make in Michigan
-What time frame will it keep on the Michigan portion of the line
-Can you use the lake shore as an additional option on the Michigan corridor

What I am going to guess:
-They will hit the local stops or at least the larger stops (DET, DER, ARB, JXN, BTL, KAL)
-The time card will remain basically the same until they enter/ leave the Michigan line (which would put them probably 2am at Detroit EB and 6-7am at Detroit WB)



That's what I have and can think of, if this all comes true it make make for an interesting month, and hopefully bring variety back to the Michigan line.

[Saturnalia]

The OTHER speculation is an extension of a Wolverine turn to Toledo. It'd give Toledo they're daytime departure/arrival while giving the Wolverines a different turn point instead of Pontiac, which really doesn't need three daily departures.

[LakeATCS]

Okay I know that both the cap and the LSL run real close across Indiana... but this is idiocy.

What about folks at Waterloo that just upgraded their station to serve both trains, just to have one jerked away. Even for a month.

Will they be making the cap/lake shore at Toledo a guaranteed connection? What about someone from Elkhart, South Bend, Waterloo, or Bryan Ohio who want to head towards BOS or NYP? Yeah and like I wanted to wake up in the middle of the FREAKING night to change trains. Maybe WAIT a couple hours in Cleveland in the station. BLEH.

Folks are already going to be pissed off about the LSL loosing diners again. YES you heard it. The Heritage diners are literally running out of time, serious metal fatigue. Not enough are usable to protect all the trains that need them.

Extend a pair of CHI-DET trains and be done with it.

[SD80MAC]

In the messed up world of RR logic, this move makes complete sense. I'm sure Amtrak wants to have the train on their own track as much as possible and I'm sure NS would love one less Amtrak in their hair from Porter to Toledo. Waterloo be dammed!

[railohio]

So the train is supposed to make a reverse move to Woodward Avenue? OK.

[Fred]

The train wouldn't go into Detroit but rather go around on the Jct Yard Branch to Dearborn & run the Michigan line from CP Townline to Porter using a Dearborn stop for Detroit area passengers.

[SousaKerry]

So who's railroad are they using between Toledo and Detroit? CSX, NS, CN?? Sorry I never learned the Detroit area, I keep my white ass out of that place as much as possible.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

If Amtrak does shift one of the long distance trains (either the Lakeshore or the Capital) to the Michigan Line, would the State of Michigan be on the hook for part of its costs?

[PerRock]

Interesting proposal, I still think an extended WOL would make more sense...

As for the dinner I havea proposal... Use Superliners on the BOS section & swap the diner there. The BOS section is usually a sleeper, cafe, and some coaches. With Supers you would have a t-slep between the two sections, a super diner, then some coaches you could even use a coach-bag. The NYP section would still be single level & have the cafe.

Peter

[Fred]

The LSL would use NS/CR track from Toledo to Dearborn.

[j32885]

Amtrak Lakeshore route should be following the old NYC-PC Mercury route. Following Michigan Line stops should be the following: KZoo, BC, JAX, AA, DBN. No DET stop, DBN will supplement it, because its closest stop to the city. No need to detour train up the New Center station.

[PerRock]

So reports from Amtrak Unlimited boards say that this reroute is not for testing, but just a detour while NS does track work on the line.

peter

[PerRock]

From a Facebook posting on a Amtrak Fans page. Supposedly from a Amtrak staffer, but not 100% verified:

Amtrak is running the Lake Shore with one unit as it is--I can't see it sparing another one for a split section. Here's what engineers in the Toledo Crew Base are being told by their union:

I received a phone call on July 13, 2016 from Assistant Superintendent Joe Morris to inform me of upcoming changes to 49/48 service. Effective October 1, 2016 the carrier will implement a pilot program to operate 49/48 from Toledo to Chicago over the Michigan line. The pilot program will last until October 31, 2016 and at that point they will decide if the pilot program was successful and could implement this change as permanent. With that said the new route will depart Toledo and use the Detroit Line to CP-YD, then route over the Junction Yard Running Track to the Michigan Line at CP-Townline and continue to CP-482 at Porter. They plan on this being a one engineer job because of the 110 MPH and the running time is under 6 hours according to their figures but I will need to monitor this because I believe the running time is over the 6 hour rule. This has been being pushed by the State of Michigan who has wanted a long distance train through Michigan and has been talked about for several years and the State of Michigan has pumped a considerable amount of State funds to keep passenger rail alive in Michigan .

The current jobs will not change except for the change in the route, schedule may change if the pilot program is successful. The carrier plans on the train being staffed by Toledo crews and the crews will need to get qualified over the new route and will need to get CN, NORAC, and ITCS Cab Signal Rules. The schedule and who will start qualifying will be up to RFE Paul Parsons who will be working with RFE Charlie Zak to get a plan in place to schedule crews for the rules and qualifying. Currently this is in its infancy and they will need to work out all of the logistics but it will be done quickly, understand this, they intend on this as a being permanent change to the way 49/48 operates and intend on seeing this being a success with or without our help.

I know this is a lot to swallow but we must remain positive. Michigan has an overflow of engineers on their extra boards and they are already qualified over 85% of the route and they could easily qualify them over the remainder of the route and we could potentially lose this work. I ask each of you affected by this to look at the big picture and try to protect our work. I will work with the carrier to make sure everything is in place and that we all have the necessary materials and training prior to the October 1st start up. And yes we will continue to qualify in the yard and this change will only effect the current 49/48 crews and the extra board.


I will continue to give you information as it comes in.

peter

[dmitzel]

That seems to be pretty straight-forward from a(n apparent) BLET rep.

I hope everyone play's-ball, so we have a chance to go east-west long distance without having to drive to (and park-in) Toledo. I've ridden the Lake Shore to Schenectady and New York Penn for work in the past - being able to catch the train in Dearborn would be cool.

[atrainguy60]

Is there any chance it would stop in Niles, for the potential South Bend and Elkhart riders?

[BnOEngr]

From a Facebook posting on a Amtrak Fans page. Supposedly from a Amtrak staffer, but not 100% verified:

Amtrak is running the Lake Shore with one unit as it is--I can't see it sparing another one for a split section. Here's what engineers in the Toledo Crew Base are being told by their union:

I received a phone call on July 13, 2016 from Assistant Superintendent Joe Morris to inform me of upcoming changes to 49/48 service. Effective October 1, 2016 the carrier will implement a pilot program to operate 49/48 from Toledo to Chicago over the Michigan line. The pilot program will last until October 31, 2016 and at that point they will decide if the pilot program was successful and could implement this change as permanent. With that said the new route will depart Toledo and use the Detroit Line to CP-YD, then route over the Junction Yard Running Track to the Michigan Line at CP-Townline and continue to CP-482 at Porter. They plan on this being a one engineer job because of the 110 MPH and the running time is under 6 hours according to their figures but I will need to monitor this because I believe the running time is over the 6 hour rule. This has been being pushed by the State of Michigan who has wanted a long distance train through Michigan and has been talked about for several years and the State of Michigan has pumped a considerable amount of State funds to keep passenger rail alive in Michigan .

The current jobs will not change except for the change in the route, schedule may change if the pilot program is successful. The carrier plans on the train being staffed by Toledo crews and the crews will need to get qualified over the new route and will need to get CN, NORAC, and ITCS Cab Signal Rules. The schedule and who will start qualifying will be up to RFE Paul Parsons who will be working with RFE Charlie Zak to get a plan in place to schedule crews for the rules and qualifying. Currently this is in its infancy and they will need to work out all of the logistics but it will be done quickly, understand this, they intend on this as a being permanent change to the way 49/48 operates and intend on seeing this being a success with or without our help.

I know this is a lot to swallow but we must remain positive. Michigan has an overflow of engineers on their extra boards and they are already qualified over 85% of the route and they could easily qualify them over the remainder of the route and we could potentially lose this work. I ask each of you affected by this to look at the big picture and try to protect our work. I will work with the carrier to make sure everything is in place and that we all have the necessary materials and training prior to the October 1st start up. And yes we will continue to qualify in the yard and this change will only effect the current 49/48 crews and the extra board.


I will continue to give you information as it comes in.

peter

The Union rep who sent this out to his constituents is none too pleased to see his words posted on foamer boards. I know none of you care because it's all about you and your so called thirst for knowledge. Nice....

[Doktor No]

I care BnO. That and .50 cents get you a cup of coffee...somewhere.
I prefer a bacardi and diet myself...
He probably should have said Internal Message Only or something to TRY and keep it off the boards..at least he could say he tried then.
C'est la vie.
Dano

[BnOEngr]

I care BnO. That and .50 cents get you a cup of coffee...somewhere.
I prefer a bacardi and diet myself...
He probably should have said Internal Message Only or something to TRY and keep it off the boards..at least he could say he tried then.
C'est la vie.
Dano

Sorry, I don't do coffee. My caffeine has to be cold, dark and carbonated.

[PerRock]

~cutting my really long quoted quote post for brevity~

The Union rep who sent this out to his constituents is none too pleased to see his words posted on foamer boards. I know none of you care because it's all about you and your so called thirst for knowledge. Nice....

If you've got such a problem with it, bring it up with the guy who posted it online when he shouldn't have. I only quoted what s/he posted.

peter

[Steve B]

Amen, PerRock. The paragraphs of updated info were posted by a RR employee to Facebook. You can't hold back news once it's out. And once it's on Facebook, the whole world knows.