Lake Shore Limited Michigan test routing

[Saturnalia]

makes so much more sense it's not even worth a debate.

But that IS THE WHOLE DEBATE.

You can't simply set out the debate by saying that the whole matter is settled. That's purely counter to the entire idea of weighing the options, causes and consequences.

I happen to agree with your overall assertion that this plan works, however. So I'm going to lay it out instead of being a pontificate.

The stop in Kalamazoo is only about 45 minutes from the Grand Rapids Metro area. Right now, I wouldn't really consider taking Amtrak to New York unless I were a railfan. Now, I can drive 45 minutes, board a train in the evening, crawl into my sleeper, and awake the next morning rolling down the Hudson for NYC. All of this without the airport security or seats that require a post-flight chiropractor.

And doing this with the LSL makes more sense than the CL, because getting to NYC puts you right in the middle of the NEC. You're only a short ride from anywhere between DC and Boston.

I think this move makes sense and will do just fine, I hope it stays.

As for the lost stops in Indiana and Ohio, again: the old schedule had two trains STACKED on top of each other. Sure you had two options, but in reality, they weren't scheduled far enough apart to make a real difference. "Oh darn, now I have to pick the 8a departure instead of a choice between 8a and 9a." Had they been going opposite directions, one might have a point. As for that opposing train, maybe it'll get Indiana and Ohio thinking about added a Cleveland-Chicago train or something like that, to counter the timing and direction of the remaining Capitol Limited.

[PerRock]

The October TT is on the right. Looks like old timing not including new stations is on the left

ya I see that now. Twas reading it like a std. TT, any idea as to the WB TT?

peter

[MiddleMI]

makes so much more sense it's not even worth a debate.

But that IS THE WHOLE DEBATE.

You can't simply set out the debate by saying that the whole matter is settled. That's purely counter to the entire idea of weighing the options, causes and consequences.

I happen to agree with your overall assertion that this plan works, however. So I'm going to lay it out instead of being a pontificate.

The stop in Kalamazoo is only about 45 minutes from the Grand Rapids Metro area. Right now, I wouldn't really consider taking Amtrak to New York unless I were a railfan. Now, I can drive 45 minutes, board a train in the evening, crawl into my sleeper, and awake the next morning rolling down the Hudson for NYC. All of this without the airport security or seats that require a post-flight chiropractor.

And doing this with the LSL makes more sense than the CL, because getting to NYC puts you right in the middle of the NEC. You're only a short ride from anywhere between DC and Boston.

I think this move makes sense and will do just fine, I hope it stays.

As for the lost stops in Indiana and Ohio, again: the old schedule had two trains STACKED on top of each other. Sure you had two options, but in reality, they weren't scheduled far enough apart to make a real difference. "Oh darn, now I have to pick the 8a departure instead of a choice between 8a and 9a." Had they been going opposite directions, one might have a point. As for that opposing train, maybe it'll get Indiana and Ohio thinking about added a Cleveland-Chicago train or something like that, to counter the timing and direction of the remaining Capitol Limited.

I mean, my point was basically that multiple people had already laid out the case, one person more than once, and I was interested in doing and just found it a little curious others did. After awhile, you get to choose whether you'll keep being baited after you've already laid out the case.

[C&O6084]

Amtrak's earliest days, they ran the NIAGARA RAINBOW Detroit to New York via Canada; last cars were sealed (Diner door locked by Customs) across Canada. Didn't last long, however, due to massive equipment shortages.

[Doktor No]

Checking Amtrak reservations from AZO to NY for October 12th 2016. Route to Chicago then east on trains. They show nothing for a Lake Shore east or west thru AZO at all at this time. 2 bedrooms still available out of South Bend, (SOB by the way). I would assume they would be marketing the Michigan reroute by now. They are not.

[NSSD70ACe]

Checking Amtrak reservations from AZO to NY for October 12th 2016. Route to Chicago then east on trains. They show nothing for a Lake Shore east or west thru AZO at all at this time. 2 bedrooms still available out of South Bend, (SOB by the way). I would assume they would be marketing the Michigan reroute by now. They are not.

I would assume that it's going to happen sometime in September, if not the end of August.

Amtrak should also be releasing a fall timetable, correct? As the schedule is now, the LSL's arrival is only a few minutes away from that of the Blue Water. Seems a little close, considering the station doesn't have a walkover to gain access to the second "platform". I'm talking about Kalamazoo here.

[Typhoon]

Yeah....uhh only folks from Indianapolis allready drive OVER and hour to catch it on Waterloo just off I69.

So you support your argument for why it affects Waterloo by saying how it affects Indy? its hard to say how many riders are driving from out of town to catch the train other than with data Amtrak has from ticket sales via credit card/ reservation info. But as someone without that information you need to look at hard data and numbers. And the population data speaks for it's self in terms of cities that will be testing service. Not to mention the other cities within 20 minutes drive of these stations that wouldn't be included. Ypsilanti, Detroit, canton, Chelsea, Farmington etc.. All over 20,000 people easily. I can't think of a town within that short amount of distance to Waterloo that has even close to the numbers that are in Michigan in terms of pure population.

Of course you also screw over the 10 million people that live on the Chicagoland area by lengthening their train trip.

[LakeATCS]

Amtrak's earliest days, they ran the NIAGARA RAINBOW Detroit to New York via Canada; last cars were sealed (Diner door locked by Customs) across Canada. Didn't last long, however, due to massive equipment shortages.

Exactly. Michigan and New York to a lesser extent had their "prefered routing" and lost it. I realize that Conrail pretty much quit using it, but perhaps both states should have stepped up and worked with Canada to preserve the route. Though I am not sure you couldn't do the same thing using the VIA route by using the Essex Terminal to reach the VIA line in Windsor. Simply seal the whole darn train across Canada. No stops, highball to Niagara falls.

I am not sold that this is a 100% a test reroute ether. There is a LOT of rumblings on various forums this is on behest of Norfolk Southern. They want the later running LSL out of the way for a month so they they can turn on the massive new PTC installation from Elkart to Toledo. 48 gets out of Chicago late enough that it would badly cut into an overnight window.
30 clears Toledo by midnight.

[Doktor No]

Of course you also screw over the 10 million people that live on the Chicagoland area by lengthening their train trip.

Anyone taking a long distance train into or out of Chicago concerned about either on time arrival or a longer running time would be flying anyway. How often does this train EVER arrive anywhere near schedule at either end of the trip? As for ten million Chicagoland folks caring? Naaa maybe two thousand even know its there at any given time.

[PatAzo]

Checking Amtrak reservations from AZO to NY for October 12th 2016. Route to Chicago then east on trains. They show nothing for a Lake Shore east or west thru AZO at all at this time. 2 bedrooms still available out of South Bend, (SOB by the way). I would assume they would be marketing the Michigan reroute by now. They are not.

Dok, now you don't mean you have doubts about what you hear on railfan sites and Facebook...

[Doktor No]

PatAZO, every day in every way I have doubts. The nuns at St. John Vianney didn't raise no fools.
Trust yet verify was something Reagun murdered from an old Russian proverb back in Gorbachov days. Thats why I went to Amtrak reservations to see if I could get a bedroom out of AZO in October for NYP. No such bird available. AZO nope, SOB yes.

[C&O6084]

Amtrak typically doesn't acknowledge a reroute of this type until they absolutely have to; it's kinda like playing chicken with the reservations system. There's usually a "lock" on new reservations in the affected area, and then they contact those already with reservations fpor changes, then they open gthe floodgates.

I ran into this when the Cal Zeph returned to D&RGW tracks in the 80s; a landslide caused a reroute back onto the UP Wyoming TRanscon before the change even took place. Pre-email, so I got a late phone call about a week before I was supposed to leave, telling me that, in effect, my train was being rerouted to the line it was already on.

[C&O6084]

And, of course, this could all simply be a well-thought-up prank.

[Notch 8]

The only problem with the Lake Shore is that it is rarely on time into Chicago...

[GTW]

I am reading the LSL detour schedule and it only looks like it is a westbound move only. Shows arrival at Dearborn at 7:55am with arrival in Chicago at 12:16 pm CT

[JStryker722]

I am reading the LSL detour schedule and it only looks like it is a westbound move only. Shows arrival at Dearborn at 7:55am with arrival in Chicago at 12:16 pm CT

They probably are working on releasing the Eastbound schedule

[trainnut]

I have been told there is a delay in the test re-route of the Lake shore Limited through Michigan. Does anyone know why?

[BnOEngr]

I have been told there is a delay in the test re-route of the Lake shore Limited through Michigan. Does anyone know why?

Yeah, but I'm not tellin'.

[Saturnalia]

At the very least, it may prove beneficial because they weren't going to have any heads-up time for sales. This seems to be to be better suited to over a quarter worth of publicity before implementation

[Steve B]

BnOEngr, couldn't you have just remained silent if all you had to contribute was a smug "yeah, but I'm not telling?"