CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

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MSchwiebert
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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by MSchwiebert »

Three drawbacks to this. 1. Someone has to carry that inventory cost on their books - and having money tied up in inventory that doesn't "turn" fast is never viewed as a good thing. 2. With JIT processes, Defects/Quality issues can be spotted, Isolated & corrected much more quickly. Using the 100 carloads of engines scenario, imagine a defect is found in an engine that was in the 30th car, and after looking rest of the engines over - they were found all to have it as well, you now have 70 carloads of engines that are unusable and either have to be sent back for re-work, or 70 carloads of new engines have to be built (to say nothing of having to find out if the previous 29 carloads of engines were defective as well after being in cars that are at the dealer lots etc.) all the while, the production line is down. Conversely, if a truckload of engines is delivered daily, if a problem is found the impact is much smaller as it's one truckload - and the issue can be addressed at the engine plant that same day for tomorrow's builds (and they could "pull ahead" a truckload to cover the defective builds much easier than multiple carloads). 3. JIT builds also allows for sequencing/matching the component builds to that day. Say the auto plant in question builds a model that uses both 4 cylinder & 6 cylinder engines. Instead of trying to estimate how many of each will be built for the entire year - and invariably being short with one and having leftovers of the other, JIT allows the engines to be built as needed for demand, and placed in the truck to match to the cars that are coming down the line that will need them, so the installer can just grab the next engine on the rack knowing that it's for the car that is at his spot on the line at that time.

Finally one other thing to consider, is that one of the things that made the auto parts train popular back in the 1970's was that in the regulated environment, it was advantageous from a rate perspective for the automakers to build outlying assembly plants (like the ones in California), and have the parts railed in. Once the industry was deregulated, it became cost advantageous to ship finished cars from the midwest/south instead. (plus the automakers "wised up" and realized in all but a few instances it was more cost effective to have models concentrated at a single plant instead of several).
chapmaja wrote:
LJK004 wrote:I don't know many details about the line overall, but the GM plant, Pontiac Metal Fab, is only switched Wednesday evening, and most of the stuff getting shipped out is sent to Arlington, TX where they build the large SUVs (Tahoe, Escalade, etc.), nothing goes to Orion by rail. That being said, almost all the stamped metal going to Orion comes from Pontiac Metal Fab, but it all goes via truck. It just doesn't make sense, cost or time wise, to ship something 5 miles by rail. Orion, like most large manufacturing plants, is based on "just in time" delivery, so time is of the essence. A truck can be called, dispatched to Pontiac, loaded, drive to Orion, and be unloaded in 2-3 hours, whereas a railcar full of parts needs days. I've heard the lead time of the parts sent to Arlington is between 7 and 10 days.

As far as I've heard, Orion doesn't have any rail operations, either bringing parts in or sending completed vehicles out.

One more thing on the topic. The auto industry has never been able to duplicate the plastics industry in the way product is handled. The plastics industry has been able to develop a method of using rail cars to store product until it is used. The automotive industry has not been able to do this.

Imagine for a second a parts supplier who has a contract for 2000 car loads of automotive engines per year. That would equal 20 100 car unit trains of engines. The parts supplier could create a unit train of engines which could then be run to a location near the assembly plant. Those engines could then be transloaded to trucks on an as needed basic at the plant. Once the unit train is completely empty it is returned and another train would take its place. The customer (assembly plant) still gets what they want (JIT delivery), while the benefits of bulk transportation (unit trains) are still used.

The plastics industry has developed this perfectly. There are yards of nothing but plastics cars awaiting distribution. The cars act as a rolling warehouse for the plastic pellets.

The lumber industry used to work this way as well. Cars would be shipped to a "yard" awaiting a customer to be assigned. The car would make part of the trip simply in the general direction of the customer before being redirected to the actual customer when the purchase was made.

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by Raildudes dad »

Just a couple comments:

Plastic pellets are a raw material with many uses, not a finished product like an engine.

The lumber on those "free running" lumber cars are discounted. The longer the car doesn't have a destination, the bigger the discount. A lumber yard in GR used to buy the majority of their cars that way. Those days are pretty much gone.

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by LJK004 »

AARR wrote:It's my understanding they build the Aveo and Verano.
Bolts are already being built at Orion. Official start of production was end of October/early November. They also build the Sonic (formerly the Aveo) there as well. The Verano was discontinued and production stopped right around the same time Bolt production started up.

As for rail, I have no idea. All the body panels are stamped out at Pontiac, so they won't be shipped via rail, however maybe some components could be shipped in? As for outbound finished cars, the goal is to have it fully rolled out by summer/early fall. Currently they are only for sale in California and Oregon, with a rolling rollout planned throughout the country. One kind of ironic thing is, Michigan will be one of the last states in which you can buy a Bolt, even though they're made right here...

All that being said, no one is really sure how many GM is going to sell, the estimates are anywhere from 15K-80K+. Right now, they're making about 125 Bolts per day, which is about 30K/year and also nowhere near 60 carloads/day as stated in that link. Assuming they all go out by autorack, you'd be hardpressed to do 40 carloads/week. That being said, GM would have to build close to 200,000 Bolts per year to need anywhere close to 60 carloads/day.

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AARR
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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by AARR »

It's my observation that small vehicles components/parts arrive by truck (often intermodal) while larger vehicles still use some direct rail service.

It's my understanding that one of the hang-ups in the past between CN-GM is getting ahold of enough tri-levels. The need for them is higher than the supply yet there's a hesitancy by anyone (leasing companies or railroads) to invest in them.

And finally, like LJK said, the volume of cars built at Orion has been lower than expectation. We'll see if the Bolt sells like GM is forecasting.
LJK004 wrote:As for rail, I have no idea. All the body panels are stamped out at Pontiac, so they won't be shipped via rail, however maybe some components could be shipped in? As for outbound finished cars, the goal is to have it fully rolled out by summer/early fall. Currently they are only for sale in California and Oregon, with a rolling rollout planned throughout the country. One kind of ironic thing is, Michigan will be one of the last states in which you can buy a Bolt, even though they're made right here...

All that being said, no one is really sure how many GM is going to sell, the estimates are anywhere from 15K-80K+. Right now, they're making about 125 Bolts per day, which is about 30K/year and also nowhere near 60 carloads/day as stated in that link. Assuming they all go out by autorack, you'd be hardpressed to do 40 carloads/week. That being said, GM would have to build close to 200,000 Bolts per year to need anywhere close to 60 carloads/day.
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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by conrailmike »

LJK004 wrote: As for rail, I have no idea. All the body panels are stamped out at Pontiac, so they won't be shipped via rail, however maybe some components could be shipped in?
I seriously doubt that, the rails into the plant were ripped out back in the 90's.

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by detroitbench »

AARR wrote:It's my understanding they build the Aveo and Verano.

They may build Bolt for export. Tax changes may make it profitable for export vehicles to be built in US and exported vs. building factories in other countries.
Avnx wrote:According to everything that I have been able to find online, GM already makes the Bolt in Lake Orion. Unless they are looking to ramp up production, which wouldn't make sense because I'd read recently that they have a surplus of small vehicles due to lower fuel prices and an increasing demand for trucks and SUV's.
Up until earlier this month Orion made all of the above, but GM has pulled the Verano replacing it with the Bolts Opel model, the Ampera-e. Orion is working one shift, where they pump out about 100 Bolts. They started shipping the first week of December.


https://youtu.be/npaehyrE2zE

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by detroitbench »

LJK004 wrote:
AARR wrote:It's my understanding they build the Aveo and Verano.
Bolts are already being built at Orion. Official start of production was end of October/early November. They also build the Sonic (formerly the Aveo) there as well. The Verano was discontinued and production stopped right around the same time Bolt production started up.

As for rail, I have no idea. All the body panels are stamped out at Pontiac, so they won't be shipped via rail, however maybe some components could be shipped in? As for outbound finished cars, the goal is to have it fully rolled out by summer/early fall. Currently they are only for sale in California and Oregon, with a rolling rollout planned throughout the country. One kind of ironic thing is, Michigan will be one of the last states in which you can buy a Bolt, even though they're made right here...

All that being said, no one is really sure how many GM is going to sell, the estimates are anywhere from 15K-80K+. Right now, they're making about 125 Bolts per day, which is about 30K/year and also nowhere near 60 carloads/day as stated in that link. Assuming they all go out by autorack, you'd be hardpressed to do 40 carloads/week. That being said, GM would have to build close to 200,000 Bolts per year to need anywhere close to 60 carloads/day.
Whoops, didn't see this post before responding....Although I have seen Bolts at dealers here in Metro Detroit and numerous on the road already.

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by dmitzel »

Maybe the dray costs to CSX New Boston are getting expensive, and making all-rail from CN Orion to the ports more attractive (for export Bolts, aka Opel's). It also just dawned on me one of the reasons for the dray move south is CN didn't want to be short-hauled with interchange to CSX in Toledo. These export vehicles could be routed to the Port of Halifax (Europe-bound), giving CN a longer haul (and justifying the maintenance and switch crew costs to Pontiac Yard.
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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

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chapmaja wrote:
LJK004 wrote: The plastics industry has developed this perfectly. There are yards of nothing but plastics cars awaiting distribution. The cars act as a rolling warehouse for the plastic pellets.

The lumber industry used to work this way as well. Cars would be shipped to a "yard" awaiting a customer to be assigned. The car would make part of the trip simply in the general direction of the customer before being redirected to the actual customer when the purchase was made.

When I worked the yard in Portmouth, there was atleast 2 tracks in the east yard full of nothing but empty or loaded plastic pellet covered hoppers. Nearly every shift we were digging car's out of those tracks to either be sent east to the plant in Kenova on the J10 or sent outbound, usually on the 195 pickup.

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by redside20 »

So this is what's being built on the grounds of an ex GM plant near the GM Pontiac Metal Center...

http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf ... iver_index
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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by conrailmike »

In case anyone wanted this... GM Deliveries for January with the Bolt highlighted. Just the sales, actual number produced isn't usually public knowledge.
GMdeliveriesjanuary17.JPG

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by wagnew0923 »

redside20 wrote:So this is what's being built on the grounds of an ex GM plant near the GM Pontiac Metal Center...

http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf ... iver_index
Will they ship and bring in by rail?

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by redside20 »

When they reach the second phase of operations they will add a rail spur. I don't know how far the CN Orion Line is from this location but they intend to ship out to places like other foundries across the country.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... in-pontiac
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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by TrainStuff13 »

I noticed some MOW equipment on the wye in Pontiac Yard today. Looks like there's some crossing work going on at Baldwin Rd.

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by GTW6401 »

TrainStuff13 wrote:I noticed some MOW equipment on the wye in Pontiac Yard today. Looks like there's some crossing work going on at Baldwin Rd.
New crossing going in this week. Saw the local up there this afternoon.

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Re: CN Pontiac-Orion Line Operations

Unread post by AARR »

I read somewhere (can't remember if it was this board or another but as hard as I try I can't find it again :( ) that the Orion Branch was cut just south and north of Collier Rd. and a wood tie bumper placed on the south side. I can confirm that is true. The large scrap metal yard at the new end of line is still shipping by rail.


So IIRC there are three customers left on the Orion Branch. The small lumber yard (several cars a month). GM Metal Plant (once a week) and the scrap metal yard (not sure on numbers shipped).


If this information was already posted on this board I apologize.
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