Detroit line, Amtrack question.

[b17bass]

I recently found a video on YouTube of a Amtrack cab view from Toledo to the Detroit Michigan Central Station. It was filmed in 1985 and runs up the Detroit line. Very interesting video! My question is, when did Amtrack stop using the Detroit line for business and why?

[SousaKerry]

What is this "Amtrack" you speak of.

Now there is an Amtrak no "C"

Kidding aside I wan not aware of that service either. Would make a lot of sense to me to extend the Michigan services to Toledo so that you don't have to backtrack to Chicago to go East.

[AARR]

Does Amtrak have a bus service that runs between Detroit and Toledo?

Kidding aside I wan not aware of that service either. Would make a lot of sense to me to extend the Michigan services to Toledo so that you don't have to backtrack to Chicago to go East.

[NSSD70ACe]

Does Amtrak have a bus service that runs between Detroit and Toledo?

Kidding aside I wan not aware of that service either. Would make a lot of sense to me to extend the Michigan services to Toledo so that you don't have to backtrack to Chicago to go East.

I believe they do or at least they did have bus service between DET and TOL. It would indeed make sense (in my novice mind anyway) to have some sort of connecting train that left Chicago, ran the Michigan Line, then instead of heading north to Pontiac, run south on the NS to Toledo to connect with 30 or 48/448. Run a connecting bus for anyone who needs to get to Toledo from anywhere north of the station in New Center.

Of course, demand and costs have to be taken into account and although it would establish a bit of a quicker connection between the Michigan Line and Toledo (as well as a possible commuter connection...?), it would have to clear NS and be equipped with PTC in order to be able to run at a competing speed with I-75. However if NS and MDOT hashed out another deal (since NS appears to be trying to dump their Michigan trackage anyway), and MDOT took over the Detroit Line, speeds could be raised to 110 MPH, ITCS installed, and not only would Amtrak be a high-speed connection between Detroit and Toledo, going 40 MPH faster (assuming the average driver is going at maximum 70, which never happens), but NS and CP could still run their traffic to/from Detroit and Canada without having to pay a cent (or at least very little) of the maintenance costs. That sounds like a win-win.

(Keep in mind I know almost nothing on the subject so I'm just posting what makes sense in my head, and is not necessarily accurate.)

[ConrailDetr​oit]

The Detroit To Toledo service stopped in 1994 when Amtrak was extended to Pontiac. On YouTube there are various videos from the 90s of Amtrak passing Delray with an F40 and phase 3 painted cars.

Now, for passengers going east from Toledo, Amtrak offers a connecting bus for passengers riding the Lake Shore Limited or Capitol Limited from Detroit.

I believe the train service was stopped for lack of ridership and union disputes.

[ConrailMan5]

The thruway bus service coincides with the capital limited/ lakeshore departure/arrival times (which wver is earlier/later) and runs from Lansing-Ann arbor- Dearborn-Detroit-Toledo.

[zintac]

Have a link to the video?

[hoborich]

I rode Amtrak back to Detroit from Florida, back in the mid 90s. Can't remember which year. It was the trip from hell. Bussed from Bradenton to Orlando. Train to Washington DC. Changed trains to Toledo. Bus to Dearborn.
At Orlando, dozens of hyper kids and families returning from Disneyworld got on. PITA! Below freezing by Jacksonville. Extreme cold front! Frozen switches. Five hours late into DC. Connecting train waiting for us, across the platform. Pulled out of DC five hours late. Five miles out of DC, the train went dark. Lost all head end power. The conductor who was in our car taking tickets told the engineer to back up into the station. Broken electrical cable from the loco was eventually fixed, and we were on our way again in about an hour. 15 below zero! Frozen water and steam lines! NO heat in the cars! Passed out little blankets the size of a bath towel! No coffee in the buffet car due to frozen water lines. Overflowing toilets! Frozen switches, and frequent stops. Serious hypothermia setting in. Finally arrived at Toledo Terminal to find a hundred people sleeping on the floor from another Amtrak that had broken down the night before. Boarded a waiting bus, nearly frozen. Girlfriend picked me up at Dearborn. Jumped in bed. Turned the electric blanket on HIGH for five hours, just to thaw out!

[J T]

What is this "Amtrack" you speak of.

Now there is an Amtrak no "C"

Kidding aside I wan not aware of that service either.

What is this "wan" that you speak of?

[GP30M4216]

A quick look at the Michigan Services, Lake Shore Ltd. or Capitol Ltd. timetables will tell you that yes, Amtrak still does offer the connecting bus service from Michigan locations to Toledo to connect with trains to and from the east. I've taken it myself several times from Dearborn to Toledo and back over the past few years when I lived in Connecticut, and it was full or mostly full each time. In fact, last year Amtrak added a new Michigan stop for the bus - in addition to East Lansing, Ann Arbor, Dearborn and Detroit, Jackson was added, and remains on the schedule. The bus is obviously a more economical and flexible solution to connect southern Michigan with the long distance trains.

I think the Amtrak setup from the 80s through 1993 was an extension of the Lake Cities, 353 and 352 on the current schedule. The train would overnight in Toledo instead of Michigan. Passengers getting off WB morning trains in Toledo would cross the platform to board the Lake Cities, then head north for Detroit, and then proceed down the Michigan Line to Chicago as a regular Michigan line train. The train would reverse the whole operation in the afternoon at 352. Consist was an F40 and Amfleets, later Amfleets/Horizons in the last few years.

The problem was obviously what to do if a long distance train was running late, thereby setting back the entire morning departure for the trip across Michigan. Also, I think there was a fairly long transfer time for passengers at Toledo in the evening, with the Michigan train arriving several hours before the eastbound LD trains came through. As I recall, the trip time from Toledo to Detroit was not fast. There were no intermediate station stops, but I don't think Amtrak could go 79 on the Detroit Line, plus there were lots of interlockings and a drawbridge to contend with. Kind of amazing to me to consider one could have taken a passenger train through downriver landmarks like Delray and FN as recently as the 90s.

[MiddleMI]

Speaking of Amtrak and Detroit in the late 80's/early 90's, exactly where was the boarding area at Michigan Central Station when the actual station building and its platforms were shutdown? Old pictures I see seem to show there was still at least one spur into what was the old coach yard off of 17th/Vernor west of the station, but I'm not sure.

Coach yard (right):

[Steve B]

Yes, the temporary station was in that area. This screen grab is from http://claslinux.clas.wayne.edu/photos/ap_index.htm, the vast collection of Detroit Edison aerial photos donated to Wayne State University.

[MiddleMI]

Yes, the temporary station was in that area. This screen grab is from http://claslinux.clas.wayne.edu/photos/ap_index.htm, the vast collection of Detroit Edison aerial photos donated to Wayne State University.

Thanks. Is there a reason they used the Rose Street name when it was well on 17th? Was it just aesthetics, or was there some ticket off actually on Rose? I did a little digging and found an old timetable and it gives the address as 2601 Rose Street, which is actually right off Roosevelt Park more than a block away.