TOFC/ Piggyback Trains in Saginaw

[BamaSubdivision94]

I have vague knowledge on this subject from the C&O side of things based off of these photos:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 598&nseq=0
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 102&nseq=1
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 932&nseq=7

and topic from a couple years ago: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27101&p=270525&hili ... ck#p270525

...as well as a PDF of the Saginaw Sub circa 1995 which depicted a TOFC loading ramp in a diagram of what was then CSX's Saginaw Yard.

There is also this GTW timetable from April 1984 which made mention of a Jefferson Avenue TOFC facility for Saginaw under General Footnotes: http://xrailfan.com/trains/x/gtw/eot2/saginaw.html

I know that piggyback trains in the city were long gone by the time I came to be in 1994 but when did they officially cease? What were the operations? Did the C&O/ Chessie Dow traffic originate in Saginaw? Were their any dedicated piggyback trains from C&O and GTW? What were the GTW TOFC operations and when they split town in 1987, is that when they ended and the yard removed? Where exactly was the yard and how was it accessed? Lastly, does anybody have any photos of any more C&O TOFC operations or any on GTW?

This has really aroused my curiosity and any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[C&O6084]

I wanna know what's going on with that SW in the second pic. Did it fall into a pothole or something?

[railohio]

I wanna know what's going on with that SW in the second pic. Did it fall into a pothole or something?

Try reading the caption: C&O GP7 5800 is working the piggy-back ramp at Dean yard as it passes derailed C&O NW2 5201. 5201 was run off the end of the tracks by a substitute crew of supervisors during a strike at one of the local industries.

[Ben Higdon]

I wanna know what's going on with that SW in the second pic. Did it fall into a pothole or something?

Try reading the caption: C&O GP7 5800 is working the piggy-back ramp at Dean yard as it passes derailed C&O NW2 5201. 5201 was run off the end of the tracks by a substitute crew of supervisors during a strike at one of the local industries.

I'm not quite following that. Why was there a "substitute crew of supervisors" on a C&O switcher because a local industry was on strike? Did the regular C&O switch crew refuse to switch a customer on strike out of union solidarity?

[Ben Higdon]

Awesome pictures of the operation there! Would've been cool to see. It was such a fossil-fuel-efficient operation to have piggy back ramps in all cities that were mid-sized or larger.

I recall a photo in the book Grand Trunk Corporation of a container being transferred between an 89' flat and a trailer chassis. The caption said it was a load of beets at Saginaw I think.

[Raildudes dad]

I'm not quite following that. Why was there a "substitute crew of supervisors" on a C&O switcher because a local industry was on strike? Did the regular C&O switch crew refuse to switch a customer on strike out of union solidarity?

That's what happened. PRR switch crew refused to switch American Seating in GR during a strike by the wokkers in the plant about 1963. Crew pulled up, got off and stood on the sidewalk at 9th St while a crew of supervisors switched the warehouse. It was about 3pm and the most of the strikers had been sitting in Sabotta's Bar on the corner of Muskegon and 9th. While the crew change was occurring, a group of the strikers came out and laid down on the tracks. (Most had trouble walking ) GR's finest were there and after they put a few in the old paddy wagon, the others got up and staggered off to the side. I was over by the C&O tracks watching the whole thing. My dad was a supervisor working in the AMSECO warehouse and called home to tell me to get on my bike and come watch the excitement.

[C&O6084]

But if I read the captions, I'd be the only one reading.

[penn central]

The last piggyback trailers on flatcars I have pictures of where taken in early 1985 on Chessie like January in Saginaw on the train to Port Huron back then it went via Yale and Brown City. Its slides I took back then. That is the last time I ever saw piggyback in Saginaw. The piggyback ramp on the GTW is on Jefferson if you look really close as far as I know you can see remnants of that ramp today. Edit the last piggyback train I saw on the GTW was in 1978 passing threw Genesee Yard power was two GTW GP38s and 5 flats of intermodal. It was northbound.

[MQT1223]

Don't some companies still put whole trailers on flatcars or those spine cars where the wheels just hang in the air? Of course in the intermodal era I'm sure this is not very practical.

[AARR]

Don't some companies still put whole trailers on flatcars or those spine cars where the wheels just hang in the air? Of course in the intermodal era I'm sure this is not very practical.

NS still operates a handful of Triple Crown routes but those are supposed to end in the near future.

[MQT1223]

Don't some companies still put whole trailers on flatcars or those spine cars where the wheels just hang in the air? Of course in the intermodal era I'm sure this is not very practical.

NS still operates a handful of Triple Crown routes but those are supposed to end in the near future.

Yeah I'd like to catch at least one of those before its all over.

[MSchwiebert]

Fortunately the industry got rid of all those nickel and dime ramps before they killed the entire intermodal market. At least they learned one lesson when they got of loose car railroading....

Awesome pictures of the operation there! Would've been cool to see. It was such a fossil-fuel-efficient operation to have piggy back ramps in all cities that were mid-sized or larger.

I recall a photo in the book Grand Trunk Corporation of a container being transferred between an 89' flat and a trailer chassis. The caption said it was a load of beets at Saginaw I think.

[CSX_CO]

Fortunately the industry got rid of all those nickel and dime ramps before they killed the entire intermodal market. At least they learned one lesson when they got of loose car railroading....

Hard to get through most 'buffs' heads that not all business is good business...

Practice Safe CSX

[Doktor No]

Fortunately the industry got rid of all those nickel and dime ramps before they killed the entire intermodal market. At least they learned one lesson when they got of loose car railroading....

Hard to get through most 'buffs' heads that not all business is good business...

Practice Safe CSX

It is if the moron in sales knows how to PRICE IT OUT!
Old Rock Island saying..."we loose money on every load but we'll make it up in VOLUME!"
And yeah, circus loading trailers at ramp that gets maybe 6 a day...what with the overhead let alone the yard crew time...it wasn't worth it. I do have a PC Post Magazine that tells about the nice business they were getting out of Kalamazoo in the early 70's and how they (the customers) could get more trailers and more cars for the business they WANTED TO GIVE PC...and how they actually liked the service...but wished they had MORE OF IT. TV train left Mosel daily for Boston.

[BamaSubdivision94]

The last piggyback trailers on flatcars I have pictures of where taken in early 1985 on Chessie like January in Saginaw on the train to Port Huron back then it went via Yale and Brown City. Its slides I took back then. That is the last time I ever saw piggyback in Saginaw. The piggyback ramp on the GTW is on Jefferson if you look really close as far as I know you can see remnants of that ramp today. Edit the last piggyback train I saw on the GTW was in 1978 passing threw Genesee Yard power was two GTW GP38s and 5 flats of intermodal. It was northbound.

1985, eh? That's a little later than I thought the operations lasted for Chessie and for the GTW, 1978 is earlier than I thought. Where on Jefferson can the remains of the yard be found? Swung by there today actually and searched high and low but to no avail.

And that's awesome that you got pictures of these! It wouldn't be too much trouble to upload them here would it?

[MQT1223]

What are the difference between these Piggyback trains and the Flexivans that the NYC had?

[BamaSubdivision94]

These piggyback trains were composed of traditionally truck trailers as opposed to being containers like the Flexi-Vans.

[JStryker722]

Don't some companies still put whole trailers on flatcars or those spine cars where the wheels just hang in the air? Of course in the intermodal era I'm sure this is not very practical.

NS still operates a handful of Triple Crown routes but those are supposed to end in the near future.

Yeah I'd like to catch at least one of those before its all over.

I work at the Walmart in Taylor right by the Wabash mainline,I see or hear them all day long.actually if I'm lucky And I'm not unloading trucks,I get to watch Trains outside on the clock lol

[penn central]

The last piggyback trailers on flatcars I have pictures of where taken in early 1985 on Chessie like January in Saginaw on the train to Port Huron back then it went via Yale and Brown City. Its slides I took back then. That is the last time I ever saw piggyback in Saginaw. The piggyback ramp on the GTW is on Jefferson if you look really close as far as I know you can see remnants of that ramp today. Edit the last piggyback train I saw on the GTW was in 1978 passing threw Genesee Yard power was two GTW GP38s and 5 flats of intermodal. It was northbound.

1985, eh? That's a little later than I thought the operations lasted for Chessie and for the GTW, 1978 is earlier than I thought. Where on Jefferson can the remains of the yard be found? Swung by there today actually and searched high and low but to no avail.

And that's awesome that you got pictures of these! It wouldn't be too much trouble to upload them here would it?

Hello Bamasubdivision94. On Jefferson next to or almost next the HESR main there was a spur that crossed Jefferson it's ripped out now. Look back in the woods to the west and some old wood planking is still there the last I looked. And maybe a couple telephone poles standing abandoned not used. I remember in the 1970s that being used. They loaded trailers circus style. I have slides of the Chessie train that had piggyback on it. One of the trailers was a Boston and Maine 40ft' trailer. I didn't get a picture of the GTW trains I wasn't taking pictures yet.oh trust me I wished I did.

[MQT1223]

These piggyback trains were composed of traditionally truck trailers as opposed to being containers like the Flexi-Vans.

So Flexi-Vans are like prehistoric intermodal trains.