GDLK Operations

[PatAzo]

I've wondered for a long time what the GDLK does to protect the rear (south) end of the Grand Rapids train when it shoves out of Gearhart Yard. Does the conductor ride on the last car all the way until the whole train clears the Gibson switch? Then does he walk back to the head (north) end while the train blocks crossings? Is there another plan? Surely they can't shove across the many streets unprotected. They never used that caboose they painted up, did they?

Kalamazoo to G.R. the conductor rides the read end out of Gerhart. He's usually met by a third person who handles the Gibson switch and then drives him to the head end. G.R. to Kalamazoo the conductor can handle the switch himself and then rides the rear end into Gerhart. The conductor calls the clear distance ahead and if crossings are clear.

The caboose was damaged in a collision in the yard and is out of service.

They also make a long shove with the conductor on the rear end from Plainwell to Otsego to switch USG.

[NSSD70ACe]

I've wondered for a long time what the GDLK does to protect the rear (south) end of the Grand Rapids train when it shoves out of Gearhart Yard. Does the conductor ride on the last car all the way until the whole train clears the Gibson switch? Then does he walk back to the head (north) end while the train blocks crossings? Is there another plan? Surely they can't shove across the many streets unprotected. They never used that caboose they painted up, did they?

Conductor rides the rear. Pretty sure he then walks back up to the headed. This also gives time for traffic to clear up in downtown Kzoo, before round two begins!

Residents of Kalamazoo are starting to complain to the city about Grand Elk blocking the tracks for so long. Part of it is because of the wye at BO and the other is the slow speed limits pulling out of/ into town. Some people are actually demanding the city get rid of the tracks.

Ignorant people are ignorant.

[Saturnalia]

Residents of Kalamazoo are starting to complain to the city about Grand Elk blocking the tracks for so long. Part of it is because of the wye at BO and the other is the slow speed limits pulling out of/ into town. Some people are actually demanding the city get rid of the tracks.

The city, like most others, has workable options to ease the congestion, but thus far either doesn't want to or can't find the consensus to do so.

[PatAzo]

Kalamazoo residents have been complaining for decades. In the 80's the city had a plan for overpasses and the residents balked when it came time to pay for it. That was back when Conrail had six road trains a day through Kalamazoo, two locals, two trips a day to GM, the north switch job and the GTW ambling into town to go to Checker. Less traffic and I'll gamble unless the fed pays for it it'll be the same story. They'll turn at Pitcher St before they''ll pay more taxes. It's mostly the drunks walking between Bells, the Old Dog and Shakespeare's are inconvenienced.

[NSSD70ACe]

Kalamazoo residents have been complaining for decades. In the 80's the city had a plan for overpasses and the residents balked when it came time to pay for it. That was back when Conrail had six road trains a day through Kalamazoo, two locals, two trips a day to GM, the north switch job and the GTW ambling into town to go to Checker. Less traffic and I'll gamble unless the fed pays for it it'll be the same story. They'll turn at Pitcher St before they'll pay more taxes. It's mostly the drunks walking between Bells, the Old Dog and Shakespeare's are inconvenienced.

HopCat and the new 600 Bar and Grill are probably in the mix now too. I was lucky enough when I stopped at Water Street Coffee a few weeks ago that it was 302 rolling into town and not 303, or else I would've been trapped.

On that note, I saw that 302 was extremely long. It's been a long time since I've been home, so has 302 been dragging more in from Elkhart to the point to where they have to cut the train at Gearhart? They stopped for quite some time before I left and that was really the only thing I could think of.

Also, the idea of an overpass in that location is intriguing. I'm not sure how they would do it with the wonky track layout for the wye and the fact that there are buildings right there.

[justalurker66]

I don't recall overpasses being part of the 1980s plan (I lived in Kzoo at the time). I do recall consolidation of lines so there would not be as many parallel tracks. Everything North/South crossing everything East/West at a single interlocking removing all of the crossings on the removed railroads.

Voters killed the plan.

[Ben Higdon]

I think the overpass idea was a separate plan. The consolidation involved a new connection from the NYC north of Gibson St over to the CK&S ROW at Michigan Ave. North/south traffic would follow the CK&S across the Michigan Line (wyes in NE and SE quandrants) up to Mosel Ave, then on the GTW ROW up to where it begins paralleling the GR&I at the north end of Pitcher St. The GR&I would've got the axe from Michigan Ave up to Eaton (just south of Mosel), and the NYC would've been removed from near Gib to Patterson St. Pretty sensible plan but it would've made the train watching less interesting.

[GP30M4216]

They also make a long shove with the conductor on the rear end from Plainwell to Otsego to switch USG.

FYI, there were 5 boxcars at USG last Thursday when I went through there mid-afternoon. I forgot to put in a report!

Kalamazoo has been a tangle of rail lines since the 3rd road came into town nearly 150 years ago. What exists today is a consolidation of several decades worth of eliminating switches, wyes, sidings, and even some through routes. Still not ideal but not nearly the number of road crossings or trains as once before. Perhaps with all this talk of high speed rail, some Kzoo residents are confused why Grand Elk isn't taking the BO Wye at 110mph???

The overpass idea would have resulted in a lot of demolition and lengthy ramps across much of the eastern part of downtown. It would have decimated the area now seeing so much activity and rebirth in the Bell's, Hopcat vicinity. As was pointed out, train counts are fewer today than the 80s when this was proposed. I agree with GAP, however...the shove move down past Gibson, even with a vehicle to get the conductor from the rear end to the cab, certainly is not a fast operation.

See this good summary of the growth and decline of railroads in Kalamazoo by the Kalamazoo Public Library. At the end is an artists rendering of one such overpass plan from 1981. It shows the overpass over the LS&MS with the existing BO wye in place. It appears that the GR&I/PRR thru downtown is removed, or else wasn't included in the overpass plan. From a railfan's point of view, I'm glad they went with the track rationalization instead! http://www.kpl.gov/local-history/transp ... roads.aspx

[NSSD70ACe]

Kalamazoo has been a tangle of rail lines since the 3rd road came into town nearly 150 years ago. What exists today is a consolidation of several decades worth of eliminating switches, wyes, sidings, and even some through routes. Still not ideal but not nearly the number of road crossings or trains as once before. Perhaps with all this talk of high speed rail, some Kzoo residents are confused why Grand Elk isn't taking the BO Wye at 110mph???

lol

The overpass idea would have resulted in a lot of demolition and lengthy ramps across much of the eastern part of downtown. It would have decimated the area now seeing so much activity and rebirth in the Bell's, Hopcat vicinity. As was pointed out, train counts are fewer today than the 80s when this was proposed. I agree with GAP, however...the shove move down past Gibson, even with a vehicle to get the conductor from the rear end to the cab, certainly is not a fast operation.

With the road trains getting longer and longer (especially the Elkhart turn) it's making matters worse for the common man. I'm all for seeing a GDLK land barge, but eventually the city's gonna demand that something is done. It happened when the Elk had a mechanical failure right after leaving the yard a few months ago. Stalled traffic downtown for over two hours. The city demanded that they are informed the next time something like that was gonna happen.

The way I see it, Grand Elk doesn't have a lot of options here. They can keep running like they are, no problem, but as their trains get longer thanks to the overhead traffic for/from NS and the interchange from GRE, MQT, CSX, etc., it's really gonna start pissing off more people as the trains take longer to clear out of downtown. Alternatively, crews could leave part of their train on the main, take half of it in, yard it, and come back out to get the rest. Problem with that is that isn't remotely efficient and you're still going to be blocking a crossing unless you're way north or way south of town.

Has there been any progress with Grand Elk building a secondary yard in the Kalamazoo area? I saw Ashplundh (I think that's how you spell it) Tree Experts at the former South Yard site at Cork street as well as the Kilgore Road crossing. Both people were on GDLK property, my guess looking at removing some trees. Might be nothing.

[dave989]

Reminds me of my time at WMU and Conrail did the same thing. Lets do the time warp again!!

[Waddy]

If the city really wanted to solve the problem all they need to do is buy the buildings on the corner of Ransom and Pitcher to allow the GDLK to build another wye facing north.

[NSSD70ACe]

If the city really wanted to solve the problem all they need to do is buy the buildings on the corner of Ransom and Pitcher to allow the GDLK to build another wye facing north.

It's a good idea, but one problem with that is that the parking lot is for Bell's, and they already don't have enough parking. Unless the city or GDLK gave Bell's a crap ton of money for a new lot, I doubt they'll part with it.

[Waddy]

If the city really wanted to solve the problem all they need to do is buy the buildings on the corner of Ransom and Pitcher to allow the GDLK to build another wye facing north.

It's a good idea, but one problem with that is that the parking lot is for Bell's, and they already don't have enough parking. Unless the city or GDLK gave Bell's a crap ton of money for a new lot, I doubt they'll part with it.

Maybe they could kind of horse trade the lot on the west side of GDLK main.

[justalurker66]

It happened when the Elk had a mechanical failure right after leaving the yard a few months ago. Stalled traffic downtown for over two hours. The city demanded that they are informed the next time something like that was gonna happen.

"Please give 24 hour notice before any unexpected failure of your equipment. Thank you."

Perhaps the city needed faster notification once the failure had occurred? Grand Elk certainly did not PLAN to have a mechanical failure in that location.

[NSSD70ACe]

"Please give 24-hour notice before any unexpected failure of your equipment. Thank you."

Perhaps the city needed faster notification once the failure had occurred? Grand Elk certainly did not PLAN to have a mechanical failure in that location.

That is what I meant. Apparently, City Hall wasn't notified of the issue until the train was on its way back into Gearhart.

Maybe they could kind of horse trade the lot on the west side of GDLK main.

That would certainly give them ample parking space and if I remember correctly, that lot has been empty for quite some time. I would be all for the new track being laid.

[PatAzo]

Alerting the city to a lengthy delay would allow the police to start forcing the schmucks to stupid to turn on Pitcher St to turn and be on their way. They could also have someone amble out and handle the Gibson switch for 303 when it comes south to save a few minutes. Aside from that don't expect much from GDLK. Capital dollars are tight for short lines. The return on investment building a new connection is so low a GM who proposed the idea could be on the short list for replacement. Don't forget GDLK doesn't own the property, NS does. Maintenance is part of their lease but new construction is another thing.

Now the GM who could sell the idea to the city and state, he'd be a hero. The county and the state paid most of the cost to connect the GR&I to the CK&S at PJ to eliminate the grade crossings on Kings Highway. Conrail said "great idea, you pay for it".

Relaying south yard will not happen. It sets along a grade. It would take more locomotives to switch, be slower because you'd be setting hand brakes and there would always be the risk of roll aways.

Rehabilitation of North Yard if they had the storage in transit business or a major shipper move in. Other than that no. Put the focus on moving cars out of town, not parking them.

[Saturnalia]

They could also have someone amble out and handle the Gibson switch for 303 when it comes south to save a few minutes.

I don't think this would save any time, since the conductor already has to be on the ground there for the shove move.

But you're right, the final solution is a NE connector and further consolidation of trackage. It'll have to be a combined effort and MDOT's Office of Rail would probably have a significant stake.

Thankfully for Kzoo, this is a fairly infrequent event. Yeah the trains block for awhile, but it's usually moving at least. Plymouth has it much, much worse.

[Ben Higdon]

I wonder how much money NS could get for the GR&I ROW from BO down to Gibson. Bell's could expand westward, isn't the old Emporium site on the other side of the tracks just a vacant lot now? They wouldn't get a huge amount of money for the linear parcels but I would think in combination with city and/or state funds it could be a wash as far as NS is concerned to build a new connection at BO. Of course NS doesn't have an incentive to get involved in a project they have nothing to gain on.

[justalurker66]

I wonder how much money NS could get for the GR&I ROW from BO down to Gibson. Bell's could expand westward, isn't the old Emporium site on the other side of the tracks just a vacant lot now? They wouldn't get a huge amount of money for the linear parcels but I would think in combination with city and/or state funds it could be a wash as far as NS is concerned to build a new connection at BO. Of course NS doesn't have an incentive to get involved in a project they have nothing to gain on.

The opportunity to fix the problem has been missed. Not only the plans from 30-40 years ago but with the recent changes when the State purchased the line. If the right people saw the value of a NE quadrant connection it could have been part of the rebuild of BO that closed the tower. But as long as the trains are not blocking Amtrak the problem isn't seen. It is a local problem.

And while the day that a train blocks roads for two hours is major news there are many more days when nothing goes wrong ... trains travel between BO and Geaheart without incident and life is good.

[Plannerdad]

Grand Elk NB at 54th Street in Wyoming, Friday 12/15, around 10:00pm. Kind of dark and a couple blocks away, but it looked like 3 locomotives and about 60 cars, all long and short hoppers. Did not see the SB return trip. Also, Grand Elk is operating on the west-side again and there are sand hoppers north of Ann Street.