Barges might soon run across L. Mich - Threat to railroads?

[59caddy]

Could this mean less agricultural traffic shipped by rail from Michigan? http://www.mlive.com/environment/index. ... cart_river

[ThatRailfanningKid]

Potentially. Just crapshooting here, but with how many big rivers the Mississippi connects to, one could pretty much ship a pile of grain wherever they wanted. However, on a larger scale, if you have hundreds of tons of grain all going to one or a small group of customers, a train could carry in one trip what would normally take multiple barges to carry.

[MSchwiebert]

It'll be interesting to see if this gets off the ground. The whole Asian Carp thing may very render the proposal moot.

[Saturnalia]

It could be a win/lose situation. Especially with Muskegon & Grand Haven being Shortline (plus Ludington and Manistee if they extend it further), there are opportunities for transloads and even shorthauls to transloads. Probably not going to pick off anything huge, since if they're going from rail to truck-barge-rail, they'd most likely just stick with rail all the way. Plus, you cannot always barge in winter, just look outside. In the end it could take some, could bring some, but I don't foresee any disastrous consequences.

[Norm]

One potential problem with the idea is letting Asian Carp into the Great Lakes.

[Bulby]

Unit grain (and carload) still has an advantage over barges; the train can go anywhere the rails do, and you can always lay a new rail line. On the other hand, rivers don't move; and our lock and dam system is in danger of being closed (this may be just fear-mongering by the Army Corps of Engineers, it remains to be seen) if the government doesn't start pouring money in to the system; because the barges don't (and won't) pay much more than 50% of the cost of maintaining the infrastructure they use.

Another benefit of unit trains is if the destination changes, it just takes a quick phone call to re-direct the train. Barges aren't that fast.

[JStryker722]

Considering that most of Michigan agricultural products get shipped out of state anyway,I don't see this particularly hurting railroads here that bad,if at all. On the other hand,it could actually create a situation where railroads haul product that is transloaded to destinations in Michigan for a change. The key will be railroad service planners finding shipper/receiver pairs that could result in carloads on their rail lines that would be worth while. This may not be worth much to a Class 1 but MQT and the G&W operations in Michigan could do nicely if they tried using the barge idea to ship agricultural products across Lake Michigan to/from Michigan to their advantage.

[12Bridge]

Barges have plenty of advantages over rail, especially when it comes to speed and time loading/unloading.

[NYCMan]

Barges across Lake Michigan would only be able to run seasonally. There used to be rail barges, and in the end they didn't make it.

[LSRC]

Barges have plenty of advantages over rail, especially when it comes to speed and time loading/unloading.

BIASED!

[kenN]

Barges have been proposed before, but none has worked. On a calm day and calm water, barges look good. But the Great Lakes are anything but calm. If an enclosed carferry or ore boat can be sunk in a storm (and they have), consider what a storm would do to a barge!

[AARR]

After ferry service ended on the AA at Frankfort (Elberta) in April, 1982, a barge that could hold 40 rail cars was proposed. It would be propelled by a tug boat (IIRC) and operate with a third of the crew it took to operate a ferry (12ish vs. 30 something).

[PatAzo]

The regulations for barge service on Lake Michigan have been in place since the 90’s. A small number have run from the Chicago area to Milwaukee. But it isn’t the big tows you see on the Mississippi. Among the regulations allowing them they are limited to three barges. The barges have to be unmanned. They have to stay within five miles of shore and be able to enter a harbor during weather. They cannot operate under small craft advisories. The same bunch talks about hauling shipping containers between Muskegon and Milwaukee to avoid the congestion in Chicago.

[JStryker722]

Barges have been proposed before, but none has worked. On a calm day and calm water, barges look good. But the Great Lakes are anything but calm. If an enclosed carferry or ore boat can be sunk in a storm (and they have),consider what a storm would do to a barge!

Can anyone say Edmund Fitzgerald? lol

[CSX_CO]

Barges have been proposed before, but none has worked. On a calm day and calm water, barges look good. But the Great Lakes are anything but calm. If an enclosed carferry or ore boat can be sunk in a storm (and they have),consider what a storm would do to a barge!

Can anyone say Edmund Fitzgerald? lol

I saw where someone was making more 'sea worthy' barges for larger bodies of water. Might have seen it on Trainodors. So I don't think its going to be your typical Ohio or Mississippi River barges going across the lake.

Practice Safe CSX

[Notch 8]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/digitalrai ... 0405092425

Barges are on the Great Lakes ! Just different then river barge ! And the Alaskan RR uses barges from Washington State to Canada and Alaska,

Barges don't have the personality of the Lakers !

[PatAzo]

There has been testing done on models in Europe looking at barge designs that could run from the U.K. to Rotterdam and into Germany. A sea tug would take barges across the channel and a river tug would take over for the river transit. One of the design looks like the great lakes barges with the tug nested in a notch but on a smaller scale.

[12Bridge]

You cant compare inland (rivers) to the Great Lakes, not at all. That and I am not sure where you got the 5 mile thing, because I have been on trips and we were much more then 5 miles out.. River barges work fine in the lakes, you just need to play your weather. You dont take 15 at a shot either.. (back to that inland comment). I wont even get into moving oil by barge over rail..

Every industry had its perks, and its downsides. Shipping by rail is not always the answer, nor is by truck, or water.

[PatAzo]

I am not sure where you got the 5 mile thing

46 CFR Part 45 Load Line Requirements for Dry Cargo River Barges Operating on Lake Michigan.

[railroadchoad]

I am not sure where you got the 5 mile thing

46 CFR Part 45 Load Line Requirements for Dry Cargo River Barges Operating on Lake Michigan.

BOOM! CFR'd!