1225

[chapmaja]

A few things to consider.

First, they might have run into problems with the amount paid for some of the equipment to come in for the Festival in 2009. 4449 seems to be the big one I'd be considering, but also 765. Let's not forget that 765 pulled an extra train over the weekend (or was it 2 extras) when 1225 went down. Another factor to consider is that I'm sure Owosso had to get there hands in on the money from the festival as well. They needed to have streets blocked off. They needed extra police coverage due to the crowd size in the area. They needed to have extra crews in place to clean up the city after everyone left (outside the SRI's gates).

Second, there was the cost of the repairs for 1225 last summer to allow it to run in the Fall. I have heard those tubes were borrowed from another group. Maybe they were further damaged and had to be paid for by the SRI when the second problems occurred.

Finally, it seemed like a lot of revenue was coming in during the Festival, but does anyone know how much they made or didn't make on the trips in the fall and the Polar Express Trips. I would guess the Polar Express Trip revenue was likely down or at least stagnant from the 2008 season just due to the economy.

I do think there needs to be some PR work to explain the balance sheet and the income/expense statements from last year, but I'm not going to sit back and say this is due to mismanagement of funds but the SRI.

Now, if my numbers would just come up I could give a donation to the SRI and get everything back on track for the rebuild.

[Cinderpath]

What went wrong? Nothing. I have some good knowledge of the situation. I really don't think people have a clue about what the expenses were to put on Trainfest, or running a business in general, as to what things truly cost. The cost of bringing the #4449 and insurance alone was staggering. Think about all the cost/effort to prep the locomotives, travel cost/lodging, coal, fuel, tent rental, site insurance, getting the grounds ready, (which they did a lot) etc. While Trainfest did not loose money, and was a huge PR and travel coup for the organization, and the community (I don't think 30,000+ people would have come to Owosso, Mi for no particular reason). Such things are not big money makers, and often loose money, (Railfair in California, NRHS Conventions, etc) so the fact that SRI with Jason Johnson's organizational skills made money off the deal is actually a testament to successfully managing the operations of such an event. Raildudes dad wrote:

"As someone who has been involved with 2 passenger operations during my railroad "career", I have to say the financial situation doesn't surprise me. Let me state I have no information on the SRI finances. But I couldn't see how Trainfest was going to generate the significant sums for the rebuild. Don't get me wrong. It was well done, I enjoyed the experience but full size railroading is expensive. They would have had to net $10 from every visitor to net $360,000. A net of $360,000 on $2 million is gross revenues is a net profit of 18%. That's pretty ambitious IMHO."

He is quite realistic about his assessment about the nature of true net profit margins, and this would be unrealistic in highly profitable business to generate such returns. If they did then SRI would be a Wall Street star. Just Think: Exxon Mobil had a net profit of 9.47% for 2008, their most profitable year ever, in a profitable business, as a perspective. It was 5.9% for Q3 2009. I have not seen exact figures, but was told roughly what the net margin was from a good source, and it was actually quite respectable. Enough to rebuild the engine, and end all worries? That was never expected, and how could it have been?

If they had not run Trainfest they'ed actually be in worse situation: they'd have not made what they did make, and not demonstrate to the community the importance of the #1225 which should make fund raising easier, but they would still be in the same situation: debt (to purchase the property/grounds, this was not free) and they would still need to rebuild the engine, so the outcome would have been the same or most likely worse. Interstingly how many people who enjoyed Trainfest paid admission, or bought tickets, even if they did not ride to support the organization? Let's call a spade a spade: railfans are often cheapskates, or freeloaders. They enjoy the fruits of experiencing such an engine, but don't contribute anything, then gripe when there are money problems. We are playing with big boy's toys here, and the cost is very expensive. What the board did with the unfortunate layoffs was the prudent, fiscally conservative thing to do, until funding is secured. It was a proper, but difficult business decision. I have been there personally myself, so I know how difficult this is to do. How on earth could that be justified without a way to pay for it, more debt? Fortunately they are not doing things the way the government does things. So I don't get the beef, and Monday morning QB'ing without any actual proof here on the list. This is why I won't cast stones.

I'll tell you what I do know: we all personally owe a debt of gratitude to the SRI, TJ Gaffney, Greg, Kim and others, and the rest of the crew, they gave us opportunities to see and experience steam as it was 50 years ago, unlike any place in the country where you can do this. Never in my lifetime here in Michigan did I think I'd have such an opportunity. I hope we can continue to do so. So now, when times are tough, is the time to give.

[bnsfben]

believe it or not we only had a few complaints this year.. people were a little disappointed but they understood that stuff happens. The trips are more for family's than say for foamers, the family's don't care because there going to the "North Pole" and spending time together as a family and having fun.

Well that is good. A smart foamer would not ride the train if they wanted to see the locomotive. Family's probably dont care all that much about the engine.

Anyway, this is a very VERY sad situation. Let me say this though, I am VERY glad that I saw, possibly, the last time that 1225 ran. I saw her on her one and only NPE trip in 2009. Best of luck to all of SRI and it's volunteers!

Also, like someone said before... getting a new "cheaper" steam engine may not be the best option right now. Going through a entire rebuild could cost much more than what the inspection is for 1225.

As much as I have a dislike of SRI and some people there, Ben this is where you are wrong. a Smart "foamer"(hare that term) would ride the train as much as possible. or atleast make a large donation. If no one rides the train, the engine doesn't move

Well, I know in this situation, I would ride the train to get money for SRI. But in years past, I believe that most railfans would watch the train go by, not ride it. Like I said above, if a railfan wanted to see the steamer, he/she would watch it from the side of the road since you cannot see the engine as much if you were on the train.

[PAT.C]

But in years past, I believe that most railfans would watch the train go by, not ride it.

I KNOW YOU ARE YOUNG AND THE SOUTHERN STEAM SPECIALS , THE NS TRIPS BEHIND 1218 AND 611 , THE READING RAMBLES ,NEW RIVER GORGE, ETC.ETC.ETC. ARE ANCIENT HISTORY TO YOU.
I WOULD SAY IT IS TIME TO STUDY YOUR HISTORY.

ALMOST ALL STEAM FAN TRIPS AS FAR BACK AS I REMEMBER WERE SOLD OUT. THE FANS RODE THE TRAINS AND LOVED THE TRIPS.

THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN STEAM TRIPS WITHOUT FANS PAYING TO RIDE.

[RailCanon]

But in years past, I believe that most railfans would watch the train go by, not ride it.

I KNOW YOU ARE YOUNG AND THE SOUTHERN STEAM SPECIALS , THE NS TRIPS BEHIND 1218 AND 611 , THE READING RAMBLES ,NEW RIVER GORGE, ETC.ETC.ETC. ARE ANCIENT HISTORY TO YOU.
I WOULD SAY IT IS TIME TO STUDY YOUR HISTORY.

ALMOST ALL STEAM FAN TRIPS AS FAR BACK AS I REMEMBER WERE SOLD OUT. THE FANS RODE THE TRAINS AND LOVED THE TRIPS.

THERE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN STEAM TRIPS WITHOUT FANS PAYING TO RIDE.

As a frequent rider, I could not have said this better myself.

[RailCanon]

By the way, on the subject of the 4449 and it's costs...
From Jason Johnson himself, via Trainorders:

I can tell you that TrainFestival was a success. What I believe happened was nothing more than a hard decision by the board at SRI to scale back on what they saw as some "off" years ahead and focus on debt reduction and raising money for the 1225. Even if they got their state grant today they would still need to raise several hundred thousand dollars and would not even be able to touch the money until late this year or next. In the mean time they have a debt load they intend to reduce so that once the 1225 is running again, the organization will be in tip-top fiscal shape. It was a hard decision but one that may turn out to be the best for the organization in the long run. We will all have to sit back and wait.

Some have suggested that the 4449 was a money losing proposition, I can tell you that it was not. Chris's math(from post below) does not include the fact the private car owners on the train paid us to be on the train. Tickets were sold by the private car owners between Portland and Minneapolis. These car owners pretty much paid for majority of the cost to get it to Michigan. We did not care if there were 8 or 80 people on those cars, because we were getting a flat rate anyway. It was up to individual car owners not us to cover the costs.

We sold tickets between Minneapolis-Chicago and Michigan as one-way positioning trips. These passengers helped cover additional expenses and unforeseen expenses. We sold the tickets back to Portland and covered the balance of the trip. No money was really made by the trip itself, but it did cover itself and no money was lost. In our eyes that was a success in 2009 (6,000 miles behind a 4-8-4 at track speed)

As much as everyone loves to hope for the worst (for the life of me, I can not figure out why)I think we should wait for SRI to get things sorted out and release a statement. Greg Udolph and Kim Lazar are very talented people and won't be without work long. I also know that I will see the 1225 steaming down the rails again, I have no reason to believe otherwise! The North Pole Express trips will run this year with diesel and most likely in 2011. If the board has made the correct decision the cost cutting measures combined with the income from these highly successful trips should raise enough money to reduce debt and meet the match required by the state for the rebuild grant.



Jason Johnson

[A No.1]

Recent Email:


TICKETS ON SALE NOW!


SWEETHEART CASINO TRAIN
SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 13th

Soaring Eagle Casino - Mount Pleasant, Michigan

Train departs Owosso promptly at Noon



$50/person (Receive $25 in Comps)



We want to remind our readers that the Steam Railroading Institute will offer an old-time railroad excursion to the Soaring Eagle Casino and Resort on Saturday,

February 13th. Our train will depart Owosso at 12:00 noon for Mount Pleasant, Michigan, giving riders a chance to ride a traditional passenger train through mid-Michigan, with a layover at Mount Pleasant and transportation to the Soaring Eagle Casino for dining, gaming, and entertainment. Return is at 10:00 PM. Reserve your seats today by visiting www.michigansteamtrain.com or by calling 989.725.9464.

Proceeds of the Sweetheart Casino Train will benefit the rebuild of Pere Marquette 1225 and the Steam Railroading Institute.

This will be the first of SRI's excursion trains for the 2010 season. An earlier e-mail may have given the impression that Steam Railroading Institute operations are being curtailed. We apologize for the poor communication; our full range of programs is continuing, although slightly reduced from last year.

While Locomotive 1225 is under repair, all SRI trips will be behind one of Great Lakes Central's diesel locomotives. We'll be sending our program of summer events soon. The Institute's visitor center and collection will reopen to visitors on June 1st for persons wishing to see the work in progress on Locomotive 1225. Meanwhile, work by our staff and volunteers continues uninterrupted on preserving Michigan's largest steam locomotive and the tradition of steam railroading.

As always, the centerpiece of SRI's annual program is our North Pole Express trips from Owosso every weekend between Thanksgiving and Christmas, which will continue to operate behind diesel power while Locomotive 1225 is being overhauled. These trips typically sell out, and tickets for this year's Christmas-season trips are now available.





Quick Links...www.michigansteamtrain.com

[Pittrailfan]

Idea 1 they can GLC can run fund raiser trips
Idea 2 they can have 765 come and run excursions for 1225 for the next two years

thats some ideas or another Steam rail corp can run excursions

[TrainWatcher]

Word is that NKP 765's crew were a little unhappy about their arrangements. Its possible, but that'd take a lot. Not to mention word was Friends of MILW 261 was going to have a operational steam locomotive for this next year which outside of 1225 leaves 765 to fill in, unless Doyle and 4449 wanna put on a Midwest encore. Not to many "OPEN" Over-the-Road Steam Locomotives to fill in.

[Pittrailfan]

Word is that NKP 765's crew were a little unhappy about their arrangements. Its possible, but that'd take a lot. Not to mention word was Friends of MILW 261 was going to have a operational steam locomotive for this next year which outside of 1225 leaves 765 to fill in, unless Doyle and 4449 wanna put on a Midwest encore. Not to many "OPEN" Over-the-Road Steam Locomotives to fill in.

ok if it happens can i say to you LLLLLLLLLIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TrainWatcher]

Nah, just word was in Trains Mag last month. And with 261 now going to be a private piece and being rebuilt, instead of at the Museum, they'll need the time.

[Pittrailfan]

thats true and ive heard about andother steam festival in Owasso

[Mr. Tops]

thats true and ive heard about andother steam festival in Owasso

Where is Owasso? Is it near Pitsberg?

[AARR]

thats true and ive heard about andother steam festival in Owasso

Where is Owasso? Is it near Pitsberg?

Don't laugh...one of the GLC spells Owosso the same way, Owasso. I think he may be making a pun...get it (owASSo

[PAT.C]

OWASSO IS IN OKLAHOMA.

http://www.cityofowasso.com/

[AARR]

OWASSO IS IN OKLAHOMA.

http://www.cityofowasso.com/

Yes, there's a railroad that runs through there. Might be one of the short lines that hauls crude oil that is transloaded to a refinery. Can't recall off the top of my head...

[SW]

OWASSO IS IN OKLAHOMA.
http://www.cityofowasso.com/

Deja vu all over again...
http://www.railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewto ... sso#p93518

[AARR]

Deja vu all over again...

IIRC this is a Yogism (Yogi Berra, catcher from Yankees in 1950's who was famous for unintentionally saying things that were funny as all heck) http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yogism

[PAT.C]

I LIKE BOTH YOGI'S--BERRA AND BEAR.!!!!!!!

BERRA...http://pandapandapie.tripod.com/id38.html

BEAR...http://humor.beecy.net/songs/yogi-bear-song/

[AARR]

I LIKE BOTH YOGI'S--BERRA AND BEAR.!!!!!!!

BERRA...http://pandapandapie.tripod.com/id38.html

BEAR...http://humor.beecy.net/songs/yogi-bear-song/

Don't forget Boo Boo