Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

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TSB
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Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by TSB »

In this morning's (3/16/09) Railway Age e-mail daily summary, they report
the quandary of how to spend the extra several billion forced on them in
the porkulus bill. This is over and above the 18 billion recently approved
and the amounts coming from states. The real problem, it states, is that
the Obama Team has mandated that it must be wasted before January 2011.
The Dream Team did not suggest any way to flush it.
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AARR
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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by AARR »

Can they use it on privately owned short lines?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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TSB
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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by TSB »

Short Lines and Regionals such as GLC don't have enough money
to make it worthwile for Amquack to cheat them out of it.

We aren't good enough for Amquack.
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leo28150
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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by leo28150 »

So, who does Amtrak cheat money out of if it's not any regional or shortline rrs'??

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by MDH »

TSB wrote:The real problem, it states, is that
the Obama Team has mandated that it must be wasted before January 2011.
Passenger service on the MAW!!! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:

But seriously, how 'bout all that deferred maintenance we keep hearing about :?: :idea:

PS - I love your signature quote TSB! Allways did like Iron Maggie. It takes some stones to sail half your fleet from your little island down to the other end of the world to re-take another little island from a continental power...
Michael Harding
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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by fredstev »

TSB wrote:In this morning's (3/16/09) Railway Age e-mail daily summary, they report
the quandary of how to spend the extra several billion forced on them in
the porkulus bill. This is over and above the 18 billion recently approved
and the amounts coming from states. The real problem, it states, is that
the Obama Team has mandated that it must be wasted before January 2011.
The Dream Team did not suggest any way to flush it.
That's easy if they really want to spend it. Put steam back on the head end.
Pere Marquette guy

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amtrakjackson
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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by amtrakjackson »

Here are some suggestions:

-Stop deferred equipment maintenance
-Clean house and get rid of the dead wood (you know what I'm talking about)
-Add additional corridor trains and equipment, and schedule trains to meet the PASSENGER'S needs, not crew management
-Restore checked baggage and station staffing to adequate levels as opposed to today's skeletonized "offerings"
-With all of the above: Refocus on providing a service, instead of "profits", which don't exist on any passenger railway

Do I think any of the above will happen? :lol:

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by GTWTD3 »

amtrakjackson wrote:
-Restore checked baggage and station staffing to adequate levels as opposed to today's skeletonized "offerings"
Is this statement being said unbiased? :-)
The dispatcher is cool.

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by amtrakjackson »

They're all things that passengers have chewed me out for. As if any of the front-line people have ANY control over anything.

Sunday after Thanksgiving, some dingbat lady almost broke the door down at Jackson because she wanted to wait inside for 352. She "demanded" to be let in. Unfortunately the hours are from 8am to 4pm. NO exceptions... that's from Washington. Same goes for Niles (10a-6p).

A shame for passengers to have to experience cars with duct tape on the floors, non-working toilets, and baggage piled high and into the aisles.

When a corporation is in "survival" mode, nothing can really be done but rearrange the mediocre. (Think pre-Amtrak passenger service mentality ala SP, PRR and NYC... cut-cut-cut...)

Now's really the chance, if there ever was one, to turn the tide.
GTWTD3 wrote:
Is this statement being said unbiased? :-)

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by intocable83 »

I say have Amtrak continue to Corpus Christi Texas instead of stopping in San Antonio so I don't have to take the bus to SA then the cab to the station. They def could make some good money with that. I know so many people who already go down to SA from here for the weekend and hate the drive.

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by GreatLakesRailfan »

intocable83 wrote:I say have Amtrak continue to Corpus Christi Texas instead of stopping in San Antonio so I don't have to take the bus to SA then the cab to the station. They def could make some good money with that. I know so many people who already go down to SA from here for the weekend and hate the drive.
Is there a direct rail route to Corpus Christi that isn't congested? From an article in Trains a couple years back, I'd gotten the impression that most of the routes through Texas to Mexico had lots of traffic and not enough room for all of it. If there is already a lot of congestion on those routes, it doesn't seem like the host railroads would be willing to make things worse by allowing Amtrak to run on those lines.
~ Charles W.

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by UncleRaul »

REEALLY easy to spend that much, considering "Amquack" has a yard full of cars that need $100,000-plus overhauls.

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by intocable83 »

I'm not quite sure about the rail traffic through Corpus Christi. The tracks are on the other side of town and whenever I am over that way I don't see any trains. I know there is an old train station down town but that is used as a railroad office. I'm sure there is quite a bit of traffic though with all the refineries here.
My friend took me on the outskirts of the city where I saw a huge grain elevator but it was night so not sure if thats served by rail also. Not sure about the congestion part because last few times I rode Amtrak into San Antonio every stop between Arkansas and there we got to at least an hour early and had to wait to depart which is good and bad cause by that point you just want off the darn train. lol

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by amtrakjackson »

I find this a most curious statement in light of the fact that TSBY and its successor receive a huge (yet thinly-veiled) subsidy as "designated operator." One of the biggest wastes of the taxpayer's money was (is) to sink millions into the money pit of a railroad north of Owosso. As much as Amtrak should be able to "sustain" itself, so should that trackage without one taxpayer dollar. Clearly it never has, but it receives a huge "subsidy" nevertheless- state ownership of all the rights-of-way. It should be "Tuscola and Quakinaw Bay."

TSB wrote:In this morning's (3/16/09) Railway Age e-mail daily summary, they report
the quandary of how to spend the extra several billion forced on them in
the porkulus bill. This is over and above the 18 billion recently approved
and the amounts coming from states. The real problem, it states, is that
the Obama Team has mandated that it must be wasted before January 2011.
The Dream Team did not suggest any way to flush it.

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by TSB »

amtrakjackson wrote:I find this a most curious statement in light of the fact that TSBY and its successor receive a huge (yet thinly-veiled) subsidy as "designated operator." One of the biggest wastes of the taxpayer's money was (is) to sink millions into the money pit of a railroad north of Owosso. As much as Amtrak should be able to "sustain" itself, so should that trackage without one taxpayer dollar. Clearly it never has, but it receives a huge "subsidy" nevertheless- state ownership of all the rights-of-way. It should be "Tuscola and Quakinaw Bay."
I don't blame you for not knowing, most don't, but in the "subsidy contest" TSB never came close to being in the lead. Since 1988 TSB and now GLC have received NO operating subsidys ( unlike Amtrack). Over the years, including after 1991 when I became an owner, there were annual (missing some years) 5 to 20 mile capital upgrades never over $2 million. [These were paid directly to contractors and never touched the hands of TSB.] During the entire life of TSB their total "subsidy" was far less than that received by any of; CN, NS, CSX or Amtrack. CN received as much subsidy in one year as TSB/GLC has in any decade. During the fifteen years that I was CEO before I sold TSB in 2006, we NEVER lost money and we NEVER took an operating subsidy.

The State of Michigan made large investments in the lines leased by GLC. For that I have always been grateful. However, TSB, during my watch, invested more in the track than did MDOT. Twenty miles of the track, all of the equipment and the shop complex are owned by GLC and are not part of MDOT's ownership.

Back to Amtrack. I am not against passenger service even government owned interstate passenger service. But my support ends when the population density doesn't support it. Boston to D.C. is fine. Other lines will be worthwile in the future, but this is not Japan. We have vast unpopulated areas (most of the country) where it isn't justified. But pouring vast sums of money into unwarranted service will sour the public on the service. Better to insure that the infrastructure needed in the future remains in place than burning funds on empty trains. My 2 cents.
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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by intocable83 »

Why would CN receive anything? They are a Canadian company so that should be up to the government of Canada shouldn't it even though they may employ a lot of people here in the U.S.?

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by TSB »

I was speaking of only Michigan lines of each road. The largest "CN" subsidy (GTW) that I
remember was for the Port Huron tunnel, about $30 million. Others on the board probably
have better numbers.
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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by amtrakjackson »

I wasn't talking about direct *operating* subsidies- but having a vast majority of the Tuscola & Quackinaw Bay's rights-of-way owned by MDOT sure looks like government involvement and subsidy (if not in name) to indirectly support a service that could never make it on its own. Not really any different than Amtrak.

In a perfect world, the government would subsidize NO transportation. Zip, zero. All interstates would be sold off as toll roads, and cover their entire costs- policing, repair, signage, increased health care costs from accidents and fatalities. No "grants", no "it's for the good of..." Then we'd have a level playing field. If it the toll is $200.00 to drive from Ann Arbor to Chicago, so be it. While they're at it, the operator might as well make a profit, too. Why not?

Both the population density and distance of Detroit-Chicago are comparable to the TGV between Paris and Lyons.

I totally agree with not wasting money on empty trains- the politicians need to keep out of it. WHY would we need the North Coast Hiawatha back, when we could use more corridor equipment and service? Politicians (and many of their constituents) haven't a clue about what goes on. And all this "High Speed Rail" hype sure sounds like just that- hype, and at 6 to 10 million a mile, the money won't go far. We can't even take care of what trains we have now!!

TSB wrote: I don't blame you for not knowing, most don't, but in the "subsidy contest" TSB never came close to being in the lead. Since 1988 TSB and now GLC have received NO operating subsidys ( unlike Amtrack). Over the years, including after 1991 when I became an owner, there were annual (missing some years) 5 to 20 mile capital upgrades never over $2 million. [These were paid directly to contractors and never touched the hands of TSB.] During the entire life of TSB their total "subsidy" was far less than that received by any of; CN, NS, CSX or Amtrack. CN received as much subsidy in one year as TSB/GLC has in any decade. During the fifteen years that I was CEO before I sold TSB in 2006, we NEVER lost money and we NEVER took an operating subsidy.

The State of Michigan made large investments in the lines leased by GLC. For that I have always been grateful. However, TSB, during my watch, invested more in the track than did MDOT. Twenty miles of the track, all of the equipment and the shop complex are owned by GLC and are not part of MDOT's ownership.

Back to Amtrack. I am not against passenger service even government owned interstate passenger service. But my support ends when the population density doesn't support it. Boston to D.C. is fine. Other lines will be worthwile in the future, but this is not Japan. We have vast unpopulated areas (most of the country) where it isn't justified. But pouring vast sums of money into unwarranted service will sour the public on the service. Better to insure that the infrastructure needed in the future remains in place than burning funds on empty trains. My 2 cents.
Last edited by amtrakjackson on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MIGN-Todd
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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by MIGN-Todd »

Wow Mr.TSB, I never knew that about TSB or GLC. I should give that rail line more credit than I actually do! I made a poor assumption (stress poor) that the ol' girl was being helped quite a bit by the axis of evil in Lansing. Kudos to you sir. One question if I may? I thought that actual railroad personnel weren't supposed to be railroad fans? I read somewhere that a Norfolk Southern employee was fired for railfanning. Something to the fact that it imposes a security risk or that they won't take the job seriously enough. Have you heard of such rumors or gossip?
U.S.Army Retired- under new management (see wife)

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Re: Boardman's (Amquack) Dilemma

Unread post by TSB »

Before answering your question, rereading this thread I feel I may have been a bit too
harsh with the Amtrak employee that responded. His is a person that defends his
organization/team and should be respected for that.

As to railfanning, I have never known of a person being fired for being a fan. Some have been
dismissed for breaking operating rules involving railfans such as "cab rides" without permission.
Even then, that doesn't usually happen without there being an accident or injury exposing
the RR to risk. At a minimum RRs require signed wavers of liability for rides.

Some RRs are more railfan friendly than others. That depends a great deal on the behavior
of the fan. Some help protect the assets of RRs and are appreciated. Others steal and damage
RR property. They get no love. Employees that divulge privileged information among railfans
publicly, such as on forums like this one can get into serious trouble. Rightfully so.
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