Wolverine to Toronto?

[Jetlink]

I don't think the actual documents that you posses are the issue. The issue, and it is prevalent on the other trains that cross the border, is that in the post 9-11 world border crossing is a more cumbersome process. It takes time. A lot of time for each person to present documents and speak to a US Customs official, or their Canadian equivalents. So even if you have a passport, nexus card, EDL, Passport Card, etc. The core issue remains. It isn't the availability of documents or even passenger legitimacy; but rather it is the time that is being taken to inspect and determine those. The hassle and delay factor. The trains would be certainly be delayed by the customs-immigration process and that is the core of the issue.

[justalurker66]

One doesn't need a passport to enter Canada. For Michigan residents, the EDL is still a legal document allowing travel to and from Canada. A Nexus card can also be used, as can other documents, including but not limited to a passport.

Not everyone who could use such a service would be a Michigan resident. Nexus is good for regular travelers who cross the border often (commuter level). An EDL (where available) reduces the number of documents one needs to carry but one still has to deal with customs. (I am an American citizen who was born in Canada to American parents - that seems to throw off the border guards.)

Canada isn't the hardest country to enter or exit but the crossing isn't trivial (although I prefer Port Huron to Detroit as a crossing point).

[chapmaja]

It'd miss Flint, but if they wanted it could easily serve Kitchener and Stratford. All VIA trains run on the same track from Komoka through the London station to just east of there, where the line through Stratford diverges.

Speaking of blue water service through Flint, is there any particular reason why train service hasn't been extended to Saginaw?

Money.

Does Amtrak run a bus service from Flint to Saginaw to connect to the Blue Water? I don't see a need for Amtrak to run to Saginaw, as the population in Saginaw isn't going the correct direction to require the service.

[DaveO]

Does Amtrak run a bus service from Flint to Saginaw to connect to the Blue Water? I don't see a need for Amtrak to run to Saginaw, as the population in Saginaw isn't going the correct direction to require the service.

Yes https://www.amtrak.com/michigan/michigan-connections

[CSXBOY]

I honestly would love this. Judging I've been to Canada quite a bit ever since getting my passport a year ago. It's not even that hard to cross. The Sarnia and Sault Ste Marie borders are are a beeze to cross. Windsor/Detroit you gotta know what you are doing it can be quite difficult if you're not familiar with it. Also didn't Amtrak have an international train years ago this discontinued shortly after 9/11? How many a day did they run? Did they ever take the Michigan line? Just curious

[Manistique]

I honestly would love this. Judging I've been to Canada quite a bit ever since getting my passport a year ago. It's not even that hard to cross. The Sarnia and Sault Ste Marie borders are are a beeze to cross. Windsor/Detroit you gotta know what you are doing it can be quite difficult if you're not familiar with it. Also didn't Amtrak have an international train years ago this discontinued shortly after 9/11? How many a day did they run? Did they ever take the Michigan line? Just curious

For years Amtrak ran a Chicago/Port Huron/Toronto train via Flint called the International. The ran an Amtrak train set and a VIA Rail train set (sometimes with FPA4 cab units). This ended with 911 because of tightening up the border, if I recall.

Way before that, ending around 1979 or 1980, Amtrak ran a Detroit to New York City round trip Train, the Niagara Rainbow, via the Detroit River Tunnel, Windsor, Niagara Falls and Buffalo daily. That ended when Conrail abandoned/sold their Canada Southern Line throught Ontario about that time.

[CSXBOY]

Gotcha. Did the Via units ever make it across the border when they ran the international? Or did they power swap for Amtrak in Port Huron? How did that work before 911?

[Saturnalia]

Gotcha. Did the Via units ever make it across the border when they ran the international? Or did they power swap for Amtrak in Port Huron? How did that work before 911?

Both trainsets went all the way, in a true pooled equipment setup.

[GP30M4216]

Gotcha. Did the Via units ever make it across the border when they ran the international? Or did they power swap for Amtrak in Port Huron? How did that work before 911?

There is some discussion of the operation of the joint VIA/Amtrak International and equipment if you read through this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=38023

[SD80MAC]

Amtrak and Via would alternate providing the locomotives and or cars for the International. It wasn’t uncommon to see VIA F40s hauling Superliners and Amtrak P40s hauling LRCs.

[Buster Manning]

That was pre-ITCS......IF this service comes back, it will have to have the state owned Changers on it

[Steamlogger]

Here is a link to a new YouTube upload showing the International at East Lansing, Michigan, in June of 1992.
https://youtu.be/xxIA-fa0THY

[Steve B]

Way before that, ending around 1979 or 1980, Amtrak ran a Detroit to New York City round trip Train, the Niagara Rainbow, via the Detroit River Tunnel, Windsor, Niagara Falls and Buffalo daily. That ended when Conrail abandoned/sold their Canada Southern Line throught Ontario about that time.

That train ran from 10/31/74 to 1/31/79 and died because New York dropped its share of the subsidy, though certainly it would have been ultimately doomed by the gradually decaying track & eventual abandonment. Conrail didn't sell the line until 1985.