Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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AARR
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

Unread post by AARR »

Has anyone bought a ticket yet? :lol:
GLC_391 wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:13 pm
The Ann Arbor to Traverse City passenger rail service begins operating on weekend excursions in spring 2021!
https://m.facebook.com/ClareCountyMichi ... _tn__=EH-R
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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AARR wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:46 pm
Has anyone bought a ticket yet?
I was going to but with limited service beginning 2025 I wasn't sure if I would have plans that day.

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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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David Collins wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:27 pm
MDOT screwed themselves over by selling the F59 to Metrolink and then they got rid of it... I wonder if they can get the two MP36's MBTA barely use...
MDOT never owned that engine. The company that prepared it put the cart before the horse.
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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PatAzo wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:36 pm
AARR wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:46 pm
Has anyone bought a ticket yet?
I was going to but with limited service beginning 2025 I wasn't sure if I would have plans that day.
But seriously if there was a strong market for travel between Ann Arbor and Traverse City lease some busses and start hauling passengers. A bus could run up M23 and I75 faster than they can travel up the GLC and do it tomorrow. A bus isn't a train but there are some pretty decent busses and the market is people who don't want to drive.

My take on it is the project isn't as much providing a passenger service as it is providing a project to promote and vision of a future without private cars. Lease a bus and you are in business tomorrow and being in a for profit business is way different than talking about it. Lease a bus, start a service and you are at risk of showing there is not a significant market.

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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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PatAzo wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:45 am
PatAzo wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:36 pm
AARR wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:46 pm
Has anyone bought a ticket yet?
I was going to but with limited service beginning 2025 I wasn't sure if I would have plans that day.
But seriously if there was a strong market for travel between Ann Arbor and Traverse City lease some busses and start hauling passengers. A bus could run up M23 and I75 faster than they can travel up the GLC and do it tomorrow. A bus isn't a train but there are some pretty decent busses and the market is people who don't want to drive.

My take on it is the project isn't as much providing a passenger service as it is providing a project to promote and vision of a future without private cars. Lease a bus and you are in business tomorrow and being in a for profit business is way different than talking about it. Lease a bus, start a service and you are at risk of showing there is not a significant market.
As someone who drives said vehicles for a living... there’s no market to go to TC on a bus.
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PerRock
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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David Collins wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:27 pm
MDOT screwed themselves over by selling the F59 to Metrolink and then they got rid of it... I wonder if they can get the two MP36's MBTA barely use...
I don't think MDOT ever owned those F59s. From what I understood at the time, a leasing company in Canada had them & figured if they painted them up, it could sweeten the deal for winning the lease to the state for the service. After the service never happened, they went back to being leased to AMT (where I thought they still are, but I've not kept track of them) and operated for a while with AMT in MDOT paint. I'm not even sure they ever even crossed the border into the US in MDOT paint.

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SD80MAC
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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The one painted up for MI Train has been leased by Metrolink in California for the past few years.
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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SD80MAC wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:50 pm
The one painted up for MI Train has been leased by Metrolink in California for the past few years.
Yeah, that's the unit I'm talking about, I believe either former AMT or GO

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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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Caught it on SRI turntable years ago.
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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ns8401 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:54 am
As someone who drives said vehicles for a living... there’s no market to go to TC on a bus.
Agreed, nor for rail service, however....
It would seem that electric cars will be the only option available for sale within a few years. Currently a reasonably priced electric car has a range of about 350 miles.

If you drive your electric car from metro Detroit to Traverse City you will have a dead battery by the time you get there, if you make it. Assuming you arrive at your destination on one charge you will be stuck there for hours until the car can recharge. Not what tourists want.

Yes, the ranges of EVs will increase, but not at a great rate. The past twenty years of development has only resulted in a doubling of range. (The GM EV1 had a range of less than 150 miles in 1999. A Chevrolet Bolt has a range of about 300 miles in 2021.)

As some else mentioned, owing your own car may become a thing of the past. It is very likely that in the not too distant future, you will summon an autonomous car which arrive where you are and take you where you want to go. Your next trip will be in a different automobile.

There may be a potential market for rail service between Southeast Michigan and Traverse City.

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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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Standard Railfan wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:27 pm
ns8401 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:54 am
As someone who drives said vehicles for a living... there’s no market to go to TC on a bus.
Agreed, nor for rail service, however....
It would seem that electric cars will be the only option available for sale within a few years. Currently a reasonably priced electric car has a range of about 350 miles.

If you drive your electric car from metro Detroit to Traverse City you will have a dead battery by the time you get there, if you make it. Assuming you arrive at your destination on one charge you will be stuck there for hours until the car can recharge. Not what tourists want.

Yes, the ranges of EVs will increase, but not at a great rate. The past twenty years of development has only resulted in a doubling of range. (The GM EV1 had a range of less than 150 miles in 1999. A Chevrolet Bolt has a range of about 300 miles in 2021.)

As some else mentioned, owing your own car may become a thing of the past. It is very likely that in the not too distant future, you will summon an autonomous car which arrive where you are and take you where you want to go. Your next trip will be in a different automobile.

There may be a potential market for rail service between Southeast Michigan and Traverse City.
It’s 239 miles to TC from A2... so you could easily make it up there and charge the car while you go to dinner or stay at your hotel or whatever. You can take the train and be stuck with no effective way to get around when you get there.
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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Standard Railfan wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:27 pm
If you drive your electric car from metro Detroit to Traverse City you will have a dead battery by the time you get there, if you make it. Assuming you arrive at your destination on one charge you will be stuck there for hours until the car can recharge. Not what tourists want.
Recharging times are dropping like a stone. It might take 8.5-10 hours to recharge from a standard 220V outlet, but it only takes 20 minutes to get to 50%, 40 minutes to 80% and 75 minutes to 100% at Tesla superchargers, which are becoming ever more numerous. Tesla's onboard computer knows where the supercharger network is, so if you put in your destination, it will show you the fastest route, recharging included. It finds the optimum charging solution. So perhaps you're going 450 miles, just beyond its maximum range. It'll probably have you stop once for just 20 minutes to top it up, and you can get it fully recharged overnight. 20 minutes is a pretty standard food/bathroom stop if you're not in a super hurry.
Standard Railfan wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:27 pm
Yes, the ranges of EVs will increase, but not at a great rate. The past twenty years of development has only resulted in a doubling of range. (The GM EV1 had a range of less than 150 miles in 1999. A Chevrolet Bolt has a range of about 300 miles in 2021.)
Most cars will only do 350-400 miles on a tank of gas. Sure there are plenty of trips beyond that radius, but the vast, vast, vast majority are within the window...many people wouldn't even use a whole charge in a week!

It's easy to cherry pick the one thing that electric vehicles are bad at: exceptionally long range. But figure that almost everybody flies if they'll be going more than two whole tanks of gas away - say 600+ miles.

So when you get down to actual day-to-day use cases, electric vehicles already cover almost all trips within their designed range, without a recharge. So their range is really not a major obstacle. Elon Musk has even talked about how he's not really pushing for more than a 400 mile range because then the weight eats into range, while that extra utility is almost never used. If you go long haul just take an actual break for lunch instead of dribbling ketchup on yourself while hurdling down I-80 at 85 mph weaving between trucks! Boom, recharged.
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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PatAzo wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:45 am


My take on it is the project isn't as much providing a passenger service as it is providing a project to promote and vision of a future without private cars. Lease a bus and you are in business tomorrow and being in a for profit business is way different than talking about it. Lease a bus, start a service and you are at risk of showing there is not a significant market.
This is the most concise, elegant, on point comment I have ever seen made on this topic.

You should be a consultant. Hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned.
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

Unread post by TC Man »

Delta offers several r/t flights from Detroit daily. 35 minute flight vs how many hours on a train?? TC is really growing on the air side of things, not rail. Aside from the usual winter non-stop routes:

Detroit:
Delta

Chicago:
American
United

Minneapolis:
Delta

Phoenix:
Allegiant

Orlando:
Allegiant

Punta Gorda:
Allegiant

Clearwater:
Allegiant

And summer non-stop flights many actually start in April through Sept/Oct):

Atlanta:
Delta

Denver:
United

New York (LGA):
American
Delta

Newark:
United

Washington, DC:
American
Delta

Charlotte:
American

Dallas:
American

Philadelphia (new for 2021):
American

Boston (new for 2021):
American

So, as you can see, even in COVID-19, air destinations are growing a ton. And the airport announced expanding from the current 6 gates to 12 gates. TVC is the 3rd busiest airport in Michigan (beat Midland/Saginaw and Lansing a few years ago), so I don't see the whole train thing working out- EXCEPT as an occasional tourist type train (Cherry Festival, or taking TC folks to other city festivals), etc.

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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

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TC Man wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:45 am
Delta offers several r/t flights from Detroit daily. 35 minute flight vs how many hours on a train?? TC is really growing on the air side of things, not rail. Aside from the usual winter non-stop routes:

Detroit:
Delta

Chicago:
American
United

Minneapolis:
Delta

Phoenix:
Allegiant

Orlando:
Allegiant

Punta Gorda:
Allegiant

Clearwater:
Allegiant

And summer non-stop flights many actually start in April through Sept/Oct):

Atlanta:
Delta

Denver:
United

New York (LGA):
American
Delta

Newark:
United

Washington, DC:
American
Delta

Charlotte:
American

Dallas:
American

Philadelphia (new for 2021):
American

Boston (new for 2021):
American

So, as you can see, even in COVID-19, air destinations are growing a ton. And the airport announced expanding from the current 6 gates to 12 gates. TVC is the 3rd busiest airport in Michigan (beat Midland/Saginaw and Lansing a few years ago), so I don't see the whole train thing working out- EXCEPT as an occasional tourist type train (Cherry Festival, or taking TC folks to other city festivals), etc.
but i should make you aware airlines have said train travel would be better for shorter trips, and by the way, this is for trains, don't hate on us...

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ns8401
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Re: Great Lakes Central Passenger TC

Unread post by ns8401 »

David Collins wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:14 pm
TC Man wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:45 am
Delta offers several r/t flights from Detroit daily. 35 minute flight vs how many hours on a train?? TC is really growing on the air side of things, not rail. Aside from the usual winter non-stop routes:

Detroit:
Delta

Chicago:
American
United

Minneapolis:
Delta

Phoenix:
Allegiant

Orlando:
Allegiant

Punta Gorda:
Allegiant

Clearwater:
Allegiant

And summer non-stop flights many actually start in April through Sept/Oct):

Atlanta:
Delta

Denver:
United

New York (LGA):
American
Delta

Newark:
United

Washington, DC:
American
Delta

Charlotte:
American

Dallas:
American

Philadelphia (new for 2021):
American

Boston (new for 2021):
American

So, as you can see, even in COVID-19, air destinations are growing a ton. And the airport announced expanding from the current 6 gates to 12 gates. TVC is the 3rd busiest airport in Michigan (beat Midland/Saginaw and Lansing a few years ago), so I don't see the whole train thing working out- EXCEPT as an occasional tourist type train (Cherry Festival, or taking TC folks to other city festivals), etc.
but i should make you aware airlines have said train travel would be better for shorter trips, and by the way, this is for trains, don't hate on us...
Nobody is hating on you, however it’s also important to process that wanting more trains running doesn’t always make business or financial sense. That’s why nobody is saying relay track to connect podunk towns somewhere with passenger service ala 1925... there are severe limitations to what people are willing to do even if it’s not their money. Air travel is next to impossible for a bus or train to really compete with these days outside of select corridors.
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