you Must Be Criminals

Anything pertaining to railfanning in Michigan.
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Doktor No
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you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by Doktor No »

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2 ... -tsa-rules So observing through binoculars, taking notes or measuring distances, let alone taking a picture from an unusual location you will thusly be labeled a CRIMINAL.
Fascinating. Do not pass go, go directly to jail.
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Talk
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by Talk »

Doktor No wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:57 pm
https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2 ... -tsa-rules So observing through binoculars, taking notes or measuring distances, let alone taking a picture from an unusual location you will thusly be labeled a CRIMINAL.
Fascinating. Do not pass go, go directly to jail.
Excellent, Now the government agrees with half the people I run into in Holland... :shock:

Sounds like this website could be a security threat depending on how you interpret the rules... :!:
“Loitering near conveyances, railcar routing appliances or any potentially critical infrastructure” may also trigger the interest of security officials. “Observation through binoculars, taking notes, or attempting to measure distances” are cited in the regulation as suspicious activities.
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Saturnalia
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by Saturnalia »

Ahh yeah, who cares.

Most railroaders know what railfans are and that they pose no threat. As somebody who has had Class One Railroad “Security” training, the key is suspicious. Somebody with a big DSLR or camcorder on a tripod, doing nothing otherwise illegal, will not arouse suspicion.

Honestly when it gets into playing with the Fed’s, most workers have no desire to do so, since it usually involves a flood of paperwork they don’t have the time or care to complete.

As for measuring distances, that’s the part that hit me the hardest. Haven’t the fine folks at the TSA ever heard of Google Maps? Lol
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DaveO
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by DaveO »

As a former CDL holder/school bus driver, I received similar training years ago courtesy of Homeland Insecurity.
The good news is I got paid to sit through it.
The bad news is it was a joke.

Look at the number of people out there carrying weapons and who have no problems using them against people.
That has become the biggest threat to my personal safety.
What is Homeland Insecurity trying to do about that?

kd_1014
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by kd_1014 »

I hope I get arrested by the feds and thrown in jail while railfanning

That'll be a cool story
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Standard Railfan
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by Standard Railfan »

Saturnalia wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:00 am

As for measuring distances, that’s the part that hit me the hardest. Haven’t the fine folks at the TSA ever heard of Google Maps? Lol
I thought this is an odd criteria as well. The railroads already measured everything and finding a document with the measurements is not too difficult. :roll:

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Talk
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by Talk »

kd_1014 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:54 am
I hope I get arrested by the feds and thrown in jail while railfanning

That'll be a cool story
Cool story, less cool experience
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Doktor No
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by Doktor No »

Saturnalia, how do 'they' know who 'you' are? What does a regular railfan look like vs. a foamer vs. anyone else? Who says a potential threat wouldn't have a camcorder and tape machine? Would a threat have a beard and wear a turbin or a backwards baseball cap? No beard and a beanie with a propeller on it?
I'm not saying anyone is going to get taken into custody, I'm saying now they have the ability to do it whenever 'they' want. The guidelines are laid out for them to act upon as however they see fit.
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GAP
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by GAP »

Well now it seems pointless for the class 1's to paint engines in "retro color schemes" if we're not allowed to look at them. "Here it comes, cover your eyes."

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M.D.Bentley
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by M.D.Bentley »

I always wanted to be a GANDSTA :- :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

chapmaja
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by chapmaja »

Talk wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:11 am
kd_1014 wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:54 am
I hope I get arrested by the feds and thrown in jail while railfanning

That'll be a cool story
Cool story, less cool experience
I don't know. I think after the lawsuit that would be filed against the government for violating your rights, you might do ok.

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justalurker66
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by justalurker66 »

chapmaja wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:12 pm
I don't know. I think after the lawsuit that would be filed against the government for violating your rights, you might do ok.
If anything the lawyer might do ok.

I have never been arrested, so I can't speak from experience. But getting arrested is certainly not on my bucket list.

PatAzo
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by PatAzo »

The security concern has been present for years. If you follow the description the training involves assessing who is a potential threat. Police agencies do resources to investigate everyone who stands near the track. For railfans much ado about nothing comes to mind. Go to YouTube and look up First Amendment auditors. There are people who video sensitive properties to elicit a security/police response.

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justalurker66
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by justalurker66 »

Just remember that the first amendment applies to the government. It does not apply to private property. Auditors need to stick to public property and be careful not to violate any laws. All of our constitutional rights have limits.

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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by GTW6401 »

Another dud from Trains magazine.

joeyuboats
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by joeyuboats »

The last comment, about Trains magazine being a dud is pretty much correct--same goes for Model Railroader. Used to buy both at the hobby shop every month----but for the last 5-10 years the articles are just not the same, nowhere near as good. Kept most of the old ones, gave the rest away. Not to mention they keep cutting the page count down. Nothing good lasts forever.

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Doktor No
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by Doktor No »

So TRAINS Magazine is a dud because they reported on new TSA rules? It's TSA that did the rule enactment, not TRAINS.
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justalurker66
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by justalurker66 »

If one is interested in the actual rules they can be found on the TSA website ...
https://www.tsa.gov/for-industry/surfac ... ining-rule

It is a training program. The impact to railfans will be that some railroad employees will be trained and understand what the TSA considers a threat. Many railroad employees have already received training on what is considered a threat by their railroads. I don't see a huge difference from the awareness introduced 20 years ago. No new rules for railfans - but perhaps better enforcement of trespassing.

joeyuboats
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by joeyuboats »

No----Trains Magazine is a dud because the magazine is no longer near how good it used to be. Same goes for Model Railroader. Have been reading them for about 50 years. The newer mags just do not measure up to the old ones.

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Doktor No
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Re: you Must Be Criminals

Unread post by Doktor No »

You must be Old Joey, Like Me. I too agree to a certain extent because I see a bias towards the 'company line'. I tend to be sympathetic to the LABOR side. I also think they have become too FOAMY. But then again they have the news and I read it and disseminate between the good, the bad and the ugly.
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